mids
New Member
Posts: 61,030
Member is Online
|
Post by mids on Jan 26, 2009 15:12:47 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 26, 2009 15:12:59 GMT
No, please do criticise Israel. I will support you in reasoned criticism. But to claim that Zionists are running the biggest concentration camp in history, comparing it to Auschwitz, is stupendously wide of the mark and contributes to Israel's feeling of victimisation. Their feeling of being victimised must be so difficult for them. Comparing it to the feelings of a Palestinian or Lebanese women as she picks up the pieces of her dead baby pale into insignificance. I am not saying that Israel's heavy handedness is your fault. I am saying that it must be pretty easy for them to feel victimised by people making ludicrous Nazi comparisons and thus react so brutally to their attackers. As long as their enemies hyperbolise their crimes and desires to see them eradicated (such as Hamas) the more embattled they will feel. No hyperbole. Gaza is a concentration camp. Entirely confined, dependant on the guards for every item, subject to random destruction and attack, humiliation. This is a concentration camp. People are herded into it on the basis of their race and their lives and security denied. But we are getting away from the point here. Holocaust Memorial Day is just another excuse. Your vitriol is a demonstration that any criticism of Israel will not be tolerated. That is utterly stupid. |
|
|
|
Post by cobblers on Jan 26, 2009 15:15:02 GMT
Well thank you dawd. Your advice is that, if I and others stop criticising Israel, ignore the concentration camps, the mass murders, the enslavement of people in Palestine and Lebanon. then Israel will stop doing it. No, please do criticise Israel. I will support you in reasoned criticism. But to claim that Zionists are running the biggest concentration camp in history, comparing it to Auschwitz, is stupendously wide of the mark and contributes to Israel's feeling of victimisation. I am not saying that Israel's heavy handedness is your fault. I am saying that it must be pretty easy for them to feel victimised by people making ludicrous Nazi comparisons and thus react so brutally to their attackers. As long as their enemies hyperbolise their crimes and desires to see them eradicated (such as Hamas) the more embattled they will feel. And don't forget how emboldened Hamas will feel. Thgat was the whole point of this recent flare up. As commentators say the rockets gain no military advantage. The only advantage they get is the Palestinian casualties. All the talk of zionazis helps Hamas. It doesn't help people who want peace. |
|
|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 26, 2009 15:17:08 GMT
Neither side wants peace.
Neither side cares about ordinary people killed. For both it's just a propaganda tool.
|
|
|
|
Post by cobblers on Jan 26, 2009 15:17:30 GMT
Gaza is an occupied territory upon which security measures are imposed to stop rocket attacks and suicide bombs. No bombs and no rocket attacks? No pretext for blockades.
The Palestinians COULD if they wanted, vote in a party that did not pursue a path of unremitting violence committed to the eradication of Israel.
|
|
dwad
New Member
Posts: 1,146 
|
Post by dwad on Jan 26, 2009 15:19:15 GMT
Their feeling of being victimised must be so difficult for them.
Not really because they are stupendously well armed.
Your vitriol is a demonstration that any criticism of Israel will not be tolerated.
Actually I think I invited you to criticise Israel, I said I would support reasoned criticism of Israel and there really hasn't been any vitriol. I just fail to see how you can Gaza is the same as Auschwitz in anything but the most ridiculous sweeping way. Perhas this all just goes to show how desperately we need HMD to help people like Tarrant understand what happened.
As I've said on these boards before it should be education policy to send every child to the exhibition on the subject at the Imperial War Museum.
|
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Jan 26, 2009 15:22:23 GMT
But we are getting away from the point here. Holocaust Memorial Day is just another excuse. This is just stupid. The kind of blathering we get from you, from the David Irving anti-semite mob, from the extremist Arab nationalists, about how Holocaust Day is bad because, you know, it talks about the holocaust, and specifically the holocaust of the jews brought about by Nazi Germany, tells us all we need to know. You are the ones who automatically associate it with Zionism and the state of Israel. You create a self-perpetuating problem for yourselves. But that's the nature of the mentality that focusses so hard on the Jews As The Problem. And, of course, reminds us exactly why there should be a holocaust memorial day. So we can say Never Again. We'll be wrong, of course. Because we have been in the past. It's happened in Rwanda and the Congo and Darfur, it's been attempted with not enough effort to stop it in Bosnia and elsewhere. But we need to say Never Again. To learn from history. To try and prevent it repeating yet again. If, instead, we use it - as you do - as yet another opportunity to whine about those perfidious jooz manipulating the international community to their greater aims, we are exactly repeating the mistakes of the past. Bugger off to your protocols. |
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Jan 26, 2009 15:24:21 GMT
The Palestinians COULD if they wanted, vote in a party that did not pursue a path of unremitting violence committed to the eradication of Israel. To be fair, the Israelis could vote in a party that doesn't consider flattening an already poverty stricken squatter camp as an appropriate response to a couple of missiles landing in the desert. And a party that doesn't think the best way of helping Gaza become stable and a safe neighbour is by locking it up and hoping it goes away. |
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Jan 26, 2009 15:25:15 GMT
I really shouldn't get involved in IsraelPalestine threads because almost everyone is always wrong and almost everyone is always an utter thingy about it.
|
|
ricklinc
New Member
Nostalgia
Posts: 2,597
|
Post by ricklinc on Jan 26, 2009 15:25:22 GMT
Remembering the holocaust doesn't seem to have done any good. Too many governments saying, "Is this how you do one?" so I get the feeling that Hitler was only starting a trend. Or continuing one because they happened before him.
Apologies to holocaust survivors, but give it up. You did your best but humans are stupid. Now you're just being used by head hebes in Israel to grab a bit of victim status to excuse the stuff they're doing. They've worn it so thin that almost anyone can see through it.
|
|
|
|
Post by cobblers on Jan 26, 2009 15:25:30 GMT
Well said Fat Andy
|
|
|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 26, 2009 15:27:20 GMT
Actually I think I invited you to criticise Israel, I said I would support reasoned criticism of Israel and there really hasn't been any vitriol. I just fail to see how you can Gaza is the same as Auschwitz in anything but the most ridiculous sweeping way. Perhas this all just goes to show how desperately we need HMD to help people like Tarrant understand what happened. As I've said on these boards before it should be education policy to send every child to the exhibition on the subject at the Imperial War Museum. Why thank you Dawd for your gracious permission to criticise Israel. The remainer of your post where you qualify that with conditions does somewhat dilute the generosity of your offer. Perhaps you should spend some time in Gaza (or Lebanon) listening to the cries of the women who hold the bodies of their dead babies in their hands. They are trapped in Gaza. They cannot leave. Those people have no means of earning a living. Those people have no-one fighting on their behalf. No-one protects them. They are inmates in a concentration camp. If you cannot see that then you really need to open your eyes. |
|
silkbreeze
New Member
grace, strength, humour, wisdom
Posts: 273
|
Post by silkbreeze on Jan 26, 2009 15:27:46 GMT
probably too much of a democracy for that to happen andy !
|
|
|
|
Post by cobblers on Jan 26, 2009 15:28:47 GMT
"Perhaps you should spend some time in Gaza (or Lebanon) listening to the cries of the women who hold the bodies of their dead babies in their hands."
What a knob
|
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Jan 26, 2009 15:30:42 GMT
"Perhaps you should spend some time in a shower block in southern Poland, making sweet, sweet love to some zyklon B, just so you know what it feels like to actually be involved, and then you would be in a position to comment on Holocaust Memorial Day."
Cnut.
|
|
dwad
New Member
Posts: 1,146
|
Post by dwad on Jan 26, 2009 15:35:44 GMT
Actually I think I invited you to criticise Israel, I said I would support reasoned criticism of Israel and there really hasn't been any vitriol. I just fail to see how you can Gaza is the same as Auschwitz in anything but the most ridiculous sweeping way. Perhas this all just goes to show how desperately we need HMD to help people like Tarrant understand what happened. As I've said on these boards before it should be education policy to send every child to the exhibition on the subject at the Imperial War Museum. Why thank you Dawd for your gracious permission to criticise Israel. The remainer of your post where you qualify that with conditions does somewhat dilute the generosity of your offer. Perhaps you should spend some time in Gaza (or Lebanon) listening to the cries of the women who hold the bodies of their dead babies in their hands. They are trapped in Gaza. They cannot leave. Those people have no means of earning a living. Those people have no-one fighting on their behalf. No-one protects them. They are inmates in a concentration camp. If you cannot see that then you really need to open your eyes. Erm... actually I really can't be bothered to reply to this. |
|
|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 26, 2009 15:43:15 GMT
And yet you did.
|
|
dwad
New Member
Posts: 1,146
|
Post by dwad on Jan 26, 2009 15:53:56 GMT
Sorry tarrant, to be a little clearer: I'm not going to respond to any of the individual points you make, because I could hardly form a better counterargument against what you are saying than for people to merely reread your post.
|
|
|
|
Post by cobblers on Jan 26, 2009 15:57:16 GMT
Tarrant is an old fool
|
|
|
|
Post by tarrant on Jan 26, 2009 16:27:53 GMT
Sorry tarrant, to be a little clearer: I'm not going to respond to any of the individual points you make, because I could hardly form a better counterargument against what you are saying than for people to merely reread your post. Really dawd? Are you suggesting these people are free to come and go as they please? Have the checkpoints been an anti-semetic lie all along? |
|
