Row as Carol Thatcher calls tennis player 'a golli

[omnipleasant]

So what if it is due to the PC brigade dictating what people should think (which is itself a highly debatable Littlejohn-esque assertion) Feral?

Fact is, it's racially offensive. Don't use it. No skin off your nose.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Well maybe it's an age thing, I didn't grow up with these much loved toys (actually I think they're hideous) but instead grew up thinking they were slightly unpleasant relics of a less enlightened time. Bit like grammophone records but with racist overtones.

[oldmanofthesea]

I think the name Thatcher sums it up! say no more.

[omnipleasant]

Yeah they've always been unseemly to me too.

Certainly can't imagine why anyone would want to fight for their right to own them and casually use the word etc.

[feral]

Quite honestly ,Id be a slightly peeved if someone compared me to a barbie doll ( not very likely I know but you get my meaning )but I wouldnt take it as a racist slur

[evenstar]

Feb 3, 2009 15:40:20 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

Well maybe it's an age thing, I didn't grow up with these much loved toys (actually I think they're hideous) but instead grew up thinking they were slightly unpleasant relics of a less enlightened time. Bit like grammophone records but with racist overtones.

I thought you were about the same age as me ? I must have been given mine by some old relative, I loved it but then i thought it looked like a gingerbread man, I also called him 'golly', i think because even by the late 70's early 80's the wog word was definatly understood to be offensive, anyone using it know and thinks it is harlmess fun is taking out their pasty white bumhole.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

I'm 31, but then you have to remember I grew up in sophisticated cosmopolitan London and the rest of the country (if not world) is always a bit behind...

[evenstar]

Feb 3, 2009 16:15:08 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

I'm 31, but then you have to remember I grew up in sophisticated cosmopolitan London and the rest of the country (if not world) is always a bit behind...

Ah yes, Glasgow is currently running at 30 years behind I think.

[flatandy]

Feb 3, 2009 15:44:53 GMT feral said:

Quite honestly ,Id be a slightly peeved if someone compared me to a barbie doll ( not very likely I know but you get my meaning )but I wouldnt take it as a racist slur

But if you lived in a country with a history of being racist towards your type, and "barbie" was historically a racist term because it was the only white person people had seen back in the day, and now everyone knew better, you'd probably be a tad more offended if someone called you "barbie".

[VikingHumpingWitch]

The thing is though, I do give a lot of leeway for really doddery old people who have been using a word for the last 70 years and are not in a position to stop now even if they see the point, but Carol Thatcher's in her 50s. There's just no excuse for her. It would have been A Bad Word for most of her bloody life.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but Dickens rewrote parts of Oliver Twist after Jews complained that Fagin was racially offensive in its stereotype of Jews. He didn't argue, he just said sorry didn't mean to offend and cut bits out. This was over 100 years ago, he got it, why are there still people who can't grasp that abusing people's race isn't on and you just don't?

[feral]

Fact is, it's racially offensive. Don't use it. No skin off your nose.

what is ? the word golliwog or the word w og? I've never used the latter-not cos I consider it racially offensive as such but cos its an ugly word .Ive never called a black or an italian or a greek a w og .call me odd but if their origin is important to the conversation then I'll call them an Italian or a greek or an African or a jamaican or whatever .I've also never used the word c*nt for the same reason .I find it a terribly ugly word for a beatiful thing < smiles > and a quite ridiculous way of attempting to insult someone
"Fact is ,its racially offensive " means nothing to me .A word is NOT racially offensive .How on earth could it be ? It's who uses it and how .The intent behind it

[omnipleasant]

Yeah but it's only considered racist because people who were offended by racism (i.e. the PC Brigade) said that racist stuff is offensive.

If that hadn't happened, it would still be racist, but it wouldn't be considered racist by society, therefore it's not racist, and I'm going to defend it.

Or something.

[feral]

But if you lived in a country with a history of being racist towards your type, and "barbie" was historically a racist term because it was the only white person people had seen back in the day, and now everyone knew better, you'd probably be a tad more offended if someone called you "barbie".

my point actually was way back there somewhere , was that at some point I think golliwog was very much meant as a racial slur but that racial slur got forgotten over the years till it no longer existed .Till someone decided to remind everyone that it had been meant as a racial slur at one point and it should jolly well be meant as one again

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Feb 3, 2009 16:23:14 GMT feral said:

A word is NOT racially offensive .How on earth could it be ? It's who uses it and how .The intent behind it

Well, as he looks nothing like a gollywog, the only connection between him and the dolls is that he's a black fella, I'm seeing racial overtones there. She might as well have said he looks like a blackboard.

[skyways]

She was just calling a garden utensil a garden utensil (formely known as a 'spade'

[ricklinc]

Gollywogs have been re-named as Jolly Gollies. We've got one on the middle room wall. It was bought at Sainsburies from one of those charity stalls that sometimes pop up. The old dear running it was quite nice and she was doing a good trade in them. I didn't notice any offended blacks. None of the muslims shopping there burnt her stall down.

Incidents like this are good for flushing out liberal tossers so that they can be slapped.

[omnipleasant]

"Till someone decided to remind everyone that it had been meant as a racial slur at one point and it should jolly well be meant as one again "

At which point it became a racial slur.

[ricklinc]

No. At that point it became apparent that there was a liberal damp patch in the area. Should have been hunted down and subjected to a bit of mindless violence.

[feral]

If that hadn't happened, it would still be racist, but it wouldn't be considered racist by society, therefore it's not racist, and I'm going to defend it.

Oh dont be so dim.I'm not defending racism or saying it doesnt exist.I'm saying that a word becomes racist when the person who uses it intends it to be .Nigger became a racist word because it was used in a demeaning way .Negro also .So now every one says black .Well great .And what does negro actualy mean ? YES..it means black.I presume some time that someone or other will decide that that is also offensive and we|ll end up calling black people browns or ..heaven forbid ..just people

[feral]

At which point it became a racial slur.

Ive decided that omnipleasant is a racial slur .
There now .It is one now