Norwegians doctors involved in Hamas propaganda

[bertrus2]

9th special session of the Human Rights Council: "The Grave Violations of Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory including the recent aggression in the occupied Gaza Strip" - Friday, 9 January 2009
Recorded vote of 33 in favour, 1 against and 13 abstentions.

Since the single vote to ignore war crimes in Gaza came from Canada, it's obvious that the motion was not carried because of 'Islamic' votes. This is on the (unlikely) assumption that you know the composition of the UN Human Rights Counciil.

[bertrus2]

"Children playing on an apartment block roof at any time, let alone while an attack is underway"

Children playing, familes having dinner, a game of tennis all kinds of activites take place on the roofs of buildings, flat roofs, of course. I suppose everybody in Gaza should be aware that they are likely to be annihilated with the next few seconds by an Israeli attack and spend their lives cowering in the cellar, as if that were going to be a protection.

[justmyopinion]

Jan 14, 2009 17:33:55 GMT bertrus2 said:

"Children playing on an apartment block roof at any time, let alone while an attack is underway"

Children playing, familes having dinner, a game of tennis all kinds of activites take place on the roofs of buildings, flat roofs, of course. I suppose everybody in Gaza should be aware that they are likely to be annihilated with the next few seconds by an Israeli attack and spend their lives cowering in the cellar, as if that were going to be a protection.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, are you seriously suggesting that you would have a game of tennis or dinner on a roof while an air attack was going on? Are you suggesting that you would allow your children to remain out in the open, on a roof, while an air attack was going on? Are you suggesting that you would allow children to play on the roof of a multi storey building unsupervised while an air attack was going on? Don't be ridiculous. Try to look at that footage objectively rather than emotionally.

The Hamas rockets must have been very well targetted to avoid innocent Israeli citizens.

[cobblers]

Jan 14, 2009 17:33:55 GMT bertrus2 said:

"Children playing on an apartment block roof at any time, let alone while an attack is underway"

Children playing, familes having dinner, a game of tennis all kinds of activites take place on the roofs of buildings, flat roofs, of course. I suppose everybody in Gaza should be aware that they are likely to be annihilated with the next few seconds by an Israeli attack and spend their lives cowering in the cellar, as if that were going to be a protection.

Ha ha this doesn't quite square with the image of the Warsaw Ghetto sand nazi persecution you've been trying to conjure up!

and the people of Gaza must have had some inkling an attack was going to happen, Israel appealed to them directly for about 5 days to call a halt to the rocket attacks before they eventually took action.

not doing so well on this topic any more are we Bertrus, and you weren't doing that well before!

[cobblers]

The vote referred to above by Bertrus, who voted for, who against and who abstained:

9th special session of the Human Rights Council: "The Grave Violations of Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory including the recent aggression in the occupied Gaza Strip" - Friday, 9 January 2009
Recorded vote of 33 in favour, 1 against and 13 abstentions.

In favour: Angola, Argentina, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Brazil, Burkina Faso, Chile, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Gabon, Ghana, India, Indonesia, Jordan, Madagascar, Malaysia, Mauritius, Mexico, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Africa, Uruguay, Zambia;

Against: Canada;


Abstentions: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cameroon, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, Republic of Korea, Slovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland, Ukraine, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[bertrus2]

Whatever the rights and wrongs, are you seriously suggesting that you would have a game of tennis or dinner on a roof while an air attack was going on? Are you suggesting that you would allow your children to remain out in the open, on a roof, while an air attack was going on? Are you suggesting that you would allow children to play on the roof of a multi storey building unsupervised while an air attack was going on? Don't be ridiculous. Try to look at that footage objectively rather than emotionally.

I was replying to your apparent incredulity about people doing things on roofs. It may seem strange in your part of the world but it's quite usual in many places.

An air attack can take seconds to blast people out of existence before they have time to react or get their children out of harm's way, even if there is anywhere to shelter from the bombs.

[bertrus2]

Ha ha this doesn't quite square with the image of the Warsaw Ghetto sand nazi persecution you've been trying to conjure up!

Are you as profoundly stupid as you appear to be or are you just kidding?

[cobblers]

Jan 14, 2009 20:21:30 GMT bertrus2 said:

Whatever the rights and wrongs, are you seriously suggesting that you would have a game of tennis or dinner on a roof while an air attack was going on? Are you suggesting that you would allow your children to remain out in the open, on a roof, while an air attack was going on? Are you suggesting that you would allow children to play on the roof of a multi storey building unsupervised while an air attack was going on? Don't be ridiculous. Try to look at that footage objectively rather than emotionally.

I was replying to your apparent incredulity about people doing things on roofs. It may seem strange in your part of the world but it's quite usual in many places.

An air attack can take seconds to blast people out of existence before they have time to react or get their children out of harm's way, even if there is anywhere to shelter from the bombs.

Ha ha! Keep digging Bertrus. This confrontation has been building up for weeks, with Hamas firing rockets as Israel repeated warnings that they should stop or there would be retaliation. The Israelis appealed direct to the civilian population of Gaza to ensure that the rocket attacks ceased - they were given almost a week of warnings before Israel took action.

Then, before it took specific action, Israel dropped leaflets warning that specific sites would come under attack.

It is absurd to try and argue that these Israeli strikes came out of nowhere, in such a way that playing children and dining familes on rooftops were caught unawares. Your position is absurd.

[cobblers]

No I'm in earnest Bertrus, but I am laughing at you all the same.

[justmyopinion]

Actually I am quite prepared to accept that people do things on roofs (rooves?) but I was surprise that tennis appears to be so popular in Gaza, still, live and learn.

Was this attack the first silent strike of the attack? If not I would have had my kids in the cellar as soon as I heard the jets, helicopter blades or shell burst.

And what about the CPR? Are you familiar with the process? Because I am.

It is said that if you don't massage the chest hard enough to break a rib, then you aren't having the desired CPR effect.

And where were the blood soaked bandages? Cobblers is right, the child was apparently hit by a rocket? Shell? Some trauma sufficient to kill and no blood on the sheet even though the doctor was trying to rescusitate him?

[Amazed]

Hey, we are using the same avatar but I was first!

[puffin]

It's less confusing to upload your own pic.

[justmyopinion]

Jan 14, 2009 20:45:35 GMT Amazed said:

Hey, we are using the same avatar but I was first!

... and this relates to the thread, how?

[bertrus2]

It is absurd to try and argue that these Israeli strikes came out of nowhere, in such a way that playing children and dining familes on rooftops were caught unawares. Your position is absurd. [/quote][/i]

You are as stupid as you appear. Statements about families dining on rooftops was a generality not a reference specifically to Gaza. Since the Israelis are killing civilians everywhere in Gaza and killing hundreds of children, there is nowhere safe. Missile strikes can come from an unseen source. You don't think an Israeli fighter pilot has to put the missile to the head of a child before blowing it off?

What is your point, anyway? Is it particularly irresponsible of children to be killed by Israeli bombs and missiles on a roof, rather than a garden, a street, the living room, the basement?

[cobblers]

Looking at your claim that the UN is impartial, I have already stated that the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC) countries enjoy the greatest voting bloc within the UN as a whole.

Looking at the vote on Friday, the following OIC countries (such well known defenders of human rights) voted to condemn Israel of war crimes:

Azerbaijan (joined the OIC in 1991)
Bahrain (joined the OIC in 1970)
Bangladesh (joined the OIC in 1974)
Burkhina Faso (joined the OIC in 1975)
Djibouti (joined the OIC in 1978)
Egypt (joined the OIC in 1978)
Indonesia (joined the OIC in 1969)
Jordan (joined the OIC in 1969)
Nigeria (joined the OIC in 1986)
Pakistan (joined the OIC in 1969)
Phillippines (applied to join the OIC but was rejected)
Qatar (joined the OIC in 1970)
Saudi Arabia (joined the OIC in 1969)
Senegal (joined the OIC in 1969)

Every single OIC member on the 9th Special Session (and they numbered 15 in total - that's a pretty large voting bloc) voted against Israel, condemning what it termed Israel's 'Grave Violations in the Occupied Palestinian Territory'. Yes, that's right you heard correctly, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Pakistan and the rest, complaining about human rights abuses.

So what is the OIC?

[cobblers]

"You are as stupid as you appear. Statements about families dining on rooftops was a generality not a reference specifically to Gaza. Since the Israelis are killing civilians everywhere in Gaza and killing hundreds of children, there is nowhere safe."

What's the relevance of general statements to the effect that 'people do things on roofs'. Answer: no relevance. You are deflecting from your previous, equally absurd, position that Gazans were enjoying family dinners and games of tennis on their roofs when - out of the blue! - Israel deliberately attacked them, catching them unawares as they enjoyed a game of mixed doubles and a bowl of fatoush!

[justmyopinion]

"Statements about families dining on rooftops was a generality not a reference specifically to Gaza."

Didn't read like a generality to me, perhaps you could have given as a general example that some people fire rockets from roofs too?

[cobblers]

So what is the OIC? Let's have a look shall we?

The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) is an international organization with a permanent delegation to the United Nations. It groups 57 member states, from the Middle East, Africa, Central Asia, Caucasus, Balkans, Southeast Asia, South Asia and South America.

Since the nineteenth century, many Muslims had aspired to uniting the Muslim ummah to serve their common political, economic, and social interests. Despite the presence of secularist, nationalist, and socialist ideologies, in modern Muslim states, King Faysal of Saudi Arabia cooperated with other Muslim leaders to form the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. The formation of the OIC happened in the backdrop of the loss of Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem.

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Mmm, so far, so interesting...

[cobblers]

Mmm, set up with the object of serving 'their common political, economic and social interests'. What do we think those common interests could be? Tricky one isn;t it? Luckily they have a charter

"According to its charter, the OIC aims to preserve Islamic social and economic values; promote solidarity amongst member states; increase cooperation in social, economic, cultural, scientific, and political areas; uphold international peace and security; and advance education, particularly in the fields of science and technology.[1]

The flag of the OIC (shown above) has an overall green background (symbolic of Islam). In the center, there is an upward-facing red crescent enveloped in a white disc. On the disc the words "Allahu Akbar" (Arabic for "God is great") are written in modern Arabic calligraphy."

'Allah u akbar' - so what's all that about then? Anything to do with the 'common interests' referred to above?

[cobblers]

Haven't we heard that phrase before somewhere? It's a religious expression isn't it? Something along the lines of 'Love thy neighbour' is it? Not a call to power for religious theocracies surely...

Anyway, I digress. Back to this 'OIC'.

Ooh! What's this?

"The Organisation of the Islamic Conference rejected the Universal Declaration of Humans Rights as not being consistent with Sharia Law. In its place, they supported the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam [7]. While many claim it is not an alternative to the UDHR, but rather complementary, Article 24 states "All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Shari'ah." and Article 25 follows that with "The Islamic Shari'ah is the only source of reference for the explanation or clarification of any of the articles of this Declaration.""