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Post by Repat Van on Jul 20, 2016 3:36:49 GMT
Thank God the EU talks on Turkey's entry stopped ages ago. Imagine if they were a member state  |
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Post by clarity on Jul 20, 2016 3:40:50 GMT
I remember when Lebanon was the secure and settled playground of the eastern Mediterranean. Hope this doesn't happen to Turkey. Getting too close for comfort. Beirut was a hell of a beautiful city at one time and was the destination of many vacationers. I have an older friend who went there on her honeymoon and have seen her photos. There's a huge group of Lebanese living in Senegal and have met some of them, they have adapted well and are astute business owners. Also a huge group here including my mechanic. |
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Post by clarity on Jul 20, 2016 3:42:45 GMT
Thank God the EU talks on Turkey's entry stopped ages ago. Imagine if they were a member state My thoughts exactly. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 20, 2016 3:46:27 GMT
I remember when Lebanon was the secure and settled playground of the eastern Mediterranean. Hope this doesn't happen to Turkey. Getting too close for comfort. Beirut was a hell of a beautiful city at one time and was the destination of many vacationers. I have an older friend who went there on her honeymoon and have seen her photos. There's a huge group of Lebanese living in Senegal and have met some of them, they have adapted well and are astute business owners. Also a huge group here including my mechanic. Lebanon used to be somewhere I wanted to visit but plenty of people talked me out of it. Apparently it's beautiful but not the most "progressive" place towards darker complexioned people. But I expect much of the ME is like that. I guess it's off a lot of people's radars for quite sometime now. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 20, 2016 13:34:25 GMT
Thank God the EU talks on Turkey's entry stopped ages ago. Imagine if they were a member state The two are related, of course. Erodgan's presence basically killed any but the most abstract chance Turkey had of joining - both from the EU side and from the Turkish side. Erdogan doesn't want to join, and the EU hasn't been interested in Turkey since he started trashing their press freedoms. Let alone now he's having purges and demanding reintroduction of the death penalty. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 20, 2016 13:39:29 GMT
So, if sounds like the coup wasn't quite a staged coup, designed by Erdogan so he can have his "reichstag fire" purge.
Instead it sounds like it was "forced". Erdogan got wind of dissatisfied officers, and let them discover that he was planning on removing them from power leaving them no option but to have a coup. For which Erdogan was well prepared, and which he is now using to get rid of the few liberal freedoms that are left in the country.
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auldhippy
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"There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." Orwell
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Post by auldhippy on Jul 20, 2016 14:43:30 GMT
I remember when Lebanon was the secure and settled playground of the eastern Mediterranean. Hope this doesn't happen to Turkey. Getting too close for comfort. Beirut was a hell of a beautiful city at one time and was the destination of many vacationers. I have an older friend who went there on her honeymoon and have seen her photos. There's a huge group of Lebanese living in Senegal and have met some of them, they have adapted well and are astute business owners. Also a huge group here including my mechanic. Lebanon is beautiful, you can ski in the mountains in the morning and in the sea at afternoon, nobody cares what you do and all business is conducted on 10% baksheesh on everything, Most Lebanese are tri-linqual (French English & Arabic) and are the go to manager type popular with oil rich but lazy arabs.. Absolutely stunning women till they're 40. One of my favourite hashishes too. Traditionally the PM is Christian and the VPM muslim. I fully intend to return some day more than any other country I've visited. Quebec welcomed all my former Lebanese colleagues. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 20, 2016 17:16:48 GMT
Lebanon is fascinating for all kinds of reasons - the mix of religions - much richer than elsewhere in the region, and much better maintained and not destroyed by religio-ethno-nationalism, along with the French influence, has created a very interesting culture. And it's a culture that appears partly maintained despite the ongoing civil wars. The fact that some of the world's best wine is still made in the Bekaa valley is amazing, of course.
But one of the other things - if you read travelogues from any period in the last half century at least (starting long before the current civil wars and conflicts) there always seem to be Lebanese traders lubricating business in the most backwards of places. They're running the dodgy diamond trade that fuelled the DRC wars, or they're the traders who are allowed by Idi Amin, or the import-export businesses that carry on while Kapuscinski is describing a coup in Sierra Leone. I don't know what drives that culture of trading, and willingness to do so in the most risky of places, but it appears to be there.
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voice
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Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
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Post by voice on Jul 20, 2016 17:25:05 GMT
Looks like Turkey's democracy is pretty much fecked now, the amount of people purged far outnumber any conceivable involvement in the coup, judges academics media and so on.
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auldhippy
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"There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." Orwell
Posts: 27,830
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Post by auldhippy on Jul 20, 2016 20:41:44 GMT
Lebanon is fascinating for all kinds of reasons - the mix of religions - much richer than elsewhere in the region, and much better maintained and not destroyed by religio-ethno-nationalism, along with the French influence, has created a very interesting culture. And it's a culture that appears partly maintained despite the ongoing civil wars. The fact that some of the world's best wine is still made in the Bekaa valley is amazing, of course. But one of the other things - if you read travelogues from any period in the last half century at least (starting long before the current civil wars and conflicts) there always seem to be Lebanese traders lubricating business in the most backwards of places. They're running the dodgy diamond trade that fuelled the DRC wars, or they're the traders who are allowed by Idi Amin, or the import-export businesses that carry on while Kapuscinski is describing a coup in Sierra Leone. I don't know what drives that culture of trading, and willingness to do so in the most risky of places, but it appears to be there. What drives it is easy, 10%. You want hashish, no problem 10%, heroin, no problem 10%, air conditioning, no problem 10%, ak47 no problem 10%. Everything is for sale and everyone gets 10% and in turn the 10%ers fork out 10% of their 10%. It's like VAT only you get to keep it. It's a seamless and efficient millenniums old tradition. Bahksheesh. |
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auldhippy
New Member
"There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them." Orwell
Posts: 27,830
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Post by auldhippy on Jul 21, 2016 10:45:36 GMT
Has anyone seen a navy? Seems like Erdogan has lost one.
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Post by Whiterum on Jul 21, 2016 11:05:32 GMT
Has anyone seen a navy? Seems like Erdogan has lost one. Several Turkish navy ships are still unaccounted for, their commanders suspected to be among the plotters who sought to overthrow President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Admiral Veysel Kosele, the commander of the Turkish navy, has not been heard from since the failed coup on Friday, a source told The Times. It is currently unknown whether he was part of the coup or was tricked on to the boat after coup plotters told him there was a terrorist attack and then taken hostage, local media suggested. LINK |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 11:51:15 GMT
I see. So 'they' have the technology to know exactly where I am; read the same book I'm reading while stretched out on a grassy knoll in the middle of nowhere - but they can't find the Turkish navy?
And what are the capabilities of these 14 missing warships?
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Post by Whiterum on Jul 21, 2016 12:06:31 GMT
They have failed to return to their ports even though they are likely to be traceable through radar on satellite. It has prompted speculation that the ships may be on their way to Greek ports where the sailors will attempt to seek asylum. LINK |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2016 12:12:45 GMT
How ironic. I wonder if the Greeks'll remember Izmir?
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Post by Whiterum on Jul 21, 2016 12:19:36 GMT
The Greeks can't even remember to pay taxes to keep their country afloat, so who knows.
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nobody
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Post by nobody on Jul 21, 2016 12:30:11 GMT
Maybe they can use the ships to keep themselves afloat  If the don't just sell them for scrap. |
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Post by flatandy on Jul 21, 2016 14:13:23 GMT
"Hello, Mr Greek person. Have this nice present. It's certainly not full of military types from your local antagonist."
I suspect the Greeks may see through this one, and indeed might have seen this trick before, several years ago. In Turkey.
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Post by clarity on Jul 21, 2016 14:48:03 GMT
Turkey has said it will suspend the European convention on human rights during a state of emergency declared in the aftermath of last weekend’s coup attempt.
“Turkey will suspend the European convention on human rights insofar as it does not conflict with its international obligations,” the deputy prime minister, Numan Kurtulmus, was quoted as saying by the state-run Anadolu news agency.
The state of emergency will allow the government to rule by decree, passing bills that have the force of the rule of law unless they are overturned by parliament, where the majority of MPs belong to the ruling Justice and Development (AK) party.
Turkish officials insisted the lives and freedoms of citizens would not be affected, and that western powers such as France had recently taken similar measures. But concerns have mounted among both opponents and allies that the move will further consolidate President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s power.
Kurtulmus said Turkey would take the step “just like France has done under article 15 of the convention,” which allows signatory states to derogate certain rights during times of war or major public emergency.
Article 15 and other international rights treaties allow governments to restrict certain rights, including freedom of movement, expression and association during states of emergency. However, the article stipulates that measures must be strictly proportionate and not discriminate against people based on ethnicity, religion or social group.
You can read the rest in the Guardian.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 12:13:32 GMT
Turkey was always such a bastion of human rights. When I was staying in Istanbul years ago, we all kipped on the roof of the Hotel Gulhane (much cheaper than a bedroom)and every so often the police would crash the place and take away one or two of the prettier guests for 'questioning'. I knew two guys who'd been imprisoned there for silly drug offences, who were never the same after: one in particular, a Dutch guy called Freddie, was seriously disturbed by the treatment he'd received not only from the guards but the other prisoners. So these people taken prisoner for this attempted coup will be suffering terribly right now, believe me. Erdogan must go.
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