Towering Inferno!

[auldhippy]

I hope not "like" at all.

[nobody]

Jun 14, 2017 21:00:52 GMT Repat Van said:

Jun 14, 2017 19:28:30 GMT jimboky said:

I doubt that the managing company gets final say over fire alarm/ sprinkler system installation, would think they would mostly collect rent and deal with day to day issues,
in the private world the company would send the insurance company any money saved over not having up-to-date fire alarm/sprinkler system, unless you are a slum lord and don't bother with insurance,

I thought there were laws about this and the managing company would also be in breach of them if they noticed the building was not up to date with fire safety requirements and did nothing.

Yes, to a degree.

Building inspectors are also involved here, as are the fire service, H&S. etc.

Managment and contractors can worm their way out, simply by saying, "It was checked by all relevant departments"

[clarity]

Just horrible. It doesn't bear thinking about those poor people on the top 3 floors. What surprised me the most is that according to the plans there is only one staircase in that high rise building. How can that possibly legal for that many residents? Plus no sprinkler system either.

[perrykneeham]

Very sad business.

Not sure what a sprinkler system would do to stop a fire which ran up the outside of the building.

"Grenfell Tower was completed in 1974, so would have needed to comply with strict new regulations which ensured buildings would not fall down in the event of a blast, or a major fire."

Also, I doubt the building ever had a single all-areas fire alarm. Too many kitchens, toasters and chip pans.

These fire precautions might have helped but the truth is that the building's been fine for nearly half a century. The someone decided to make "improvements ...."

[perrykneeham]

From the same article:

"The Twin Towers collapsed because the aircraft fuel ignited the contents of the building and it was the burning of the contents of the building which caused the steel columns to lose stiffness. UK buildings are much more robust, or tolerant of losing structural capacity than the Twin Towers."

Dr John Knapton, emeritus professor of structural engineering at Newcastle University.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/14/grenfell-tower-would-have-collapsed-built-four-years-earlier/amp/

What a pretentious git, eh?

[perrykneeham]

It will also be interesting to discover whether it was the LA's Building Control and LFB's Fire Officer who passed this building.

I've always been sniffy about using approved Building Surveyors to pass plans. I much prefer the LA route rather than someone who is relying on their PI insurance and is subject to "who pays the piper" influence from their client.

I used to manage a well-known recording studio/serviced offices building in London. It was a f**k**g death trap. The Fire Risk Assessment was never carried out by LFB but rather by private inspectors who could be relied upon to recommend engineering solutions to mitigate risk rather than enforcing improvements.

[perrykneeham]

I expect the death toll will rise and, looking at the diversity of the known victims, I would anticipate a few John Does.

[nobody]

Jun 15, 2017 4:57:14 GMT perrykneeham said:

Very sad business.

Not sure what a sprinkler system would do to stop a fire which ran up the outside of the building.

"Grenfell Tower was completed in 1974, so would have needed to comply with strict new regulations which ensured buildings would not fall down in the event of a blast, or a major fire."

Also, I doubt the building ever had a single all-areas fire alarm. Too many kitchens, toasters and chip pans.

These fire precautions might have helped but the truth is that the building's been fine for nearly half a century. The someone decided to make "improvements ...."

When the "Address" building in Dubai caught fire, New Years Eve, a similar thing happened, the fire was on the outside when the cladding caught fire, the sprinklers came on, and as it happens, most of the damge to the building was water damage. One man died, from a heart condition, he'd had for sometime.

The Architect in this case who choose for whatever reason to use inflammable cladding needs investigating.

Personally I think there is corruption here, Contractors, probably using "Lump Labour" palms being greased etc.

Tenants being told to shut up when they complained about some of the things concerning them.

The notes from the residents association meetings will make for interesting reading.

[perrykneeham]

Yeah, I wonder if the Bill of Materials contained the dangerous phrase "or similar."

[auldhippy]

Jun 15, 2017 2:44:43 GMT clarity said:

Just horrible. It doesn't bear thinking about those poor people on the top 3 floors. What surprised me the most is that according to the plans there is only one staircase in that high rise building. How can that possibly legal for that many residents? Plus no sprinkler system either.

Because the fire prevention plan was modular by design. Each individual flat was built to contain any fire within itself, stairways & lift shafts are problematic because they create chimneys to draw fires up. Sprinkler systems & residential buildings were not considered that compatible. Fire fighters should have been able to address an individual fire within a short period of time with no spread.

Clearly & abnormally the fire did spread very quickly which will alert insurers to look at the materials used during the more recent refurbishments which included insulation & surface cladding. This building burned for 24 hours & more (without any risk of collapse) & there literally shouldn't have been materials that could burn for anything like the amount of time it did.

[nobody]

Modular flats should have "Fire Stops" around all pipes passing from floor to floor.

No doubt these will be checked during the forthcoming investigations.

What happened here is nothing short of criminal IMO, and somebody should be jailed.

[Whiterum]

Theresa May made a private visit to the site of the Grenfell Tower fire this morning.



The Prime Minister spoke to emergency services staff at the foot of the tower, which was devastated by flames in the early hours of Wednesday morning, and no survivors, media or members of the public were present.





Firefighters are searching for bodies in the tower after the blaze, which has left at least 12 people confirmed dead.



Questions grew this morning over the cause of the fire, and whether a recent refurbishment contributed to it spreading so quickly through the building.



Mrs May made a private visit to the site, away from cameras and residents


Investigations are at their earliest stages, but experts have pointed the finger at the external cladding added to the building in 2016.



London-based developer Rydon completed the refurbishment of the block last year, and insist their work “met all required building control, fire regulation and health and safety standards.”
The firm’s director, Andrew Goldman told ITV’s Good Morning Britain: “We don’t know there is any direct link between the fire and the cladding.”

LINK

[nobody]

Cladding a high rise block of flats in inflammable material is insane.

[Whiterum]

The boss of the company paid almost £3million for the cladding at Grenfell Tower that sparked 'like a match' is holed up in his £1million home today.

But Ray Bailey's company secretary wife Belinda spoke at their grand house in Crowborough, East Sussex, and denied any knowledge about work at the west London block where at least 12 died yesterday.

Mother-of-three Mrs Bailey, whose Facebook profile shows her sitting next to a tiger on an exotic holiday and enjoying luxurious ski trips, insisted there 'was nothing to say' from behind electric gates with a Porsche and a Land Rover parked in the drive.

Her businessman husband Ray, 58, who entered the curtain walling business straight from university, brags of 25 years of 'practical experience' on Harley Facades Ltd's website.

Experts were last night focusing their blame for the scale of the disaster on external cladding fitted to the block only last year - with witnesses describing how it acted like a 'firelighter' on a barbecue as flames engulfed Grenfell in 15 minutes.


Raymond Bailey is the director of Harley Facades Limited which carried out cladding work on
Grenfell Tower in a contract valued at £2.6 million - which later went bust


LINK

[perrykneeham]

"stairways & lift shafts are problematic because they create chimneys to draw fires up."

Well, they're not problematic if they're built according to the Building Regulations which set out precisely what steps need to be taken to make them safe e.g. 60/60FR doors, automatic closers, intumescent strips, etc. It is inconceivable that these were not fitted in this case.

[perrykneeham]

Jun 15, 2017 9:55:08 GMT Whiterum said:

The boss of the company paid almost £3million for the cladding at Grenfell Tower that sparked 'like a match' is holed up in his £1million home today.

But Ray Bailey's company secretary wife Belinda spoke at their grand house in Crowborough, East Sussex, and denied any knowledge about work at the west London block where at least 12 died yesterday.

Mother-of-three Mrs Bailey, whose Facebook profile shows her sitting next to a tiger on an exotic holiday and enjoying luxurious ski trips, insisted there 'was nothing to say' from behind electric gates with a Porsche and a Land Rover parked in the drive.

Her businessman husband Ray, 58, who entered the curtain walling business straight from university, brags of 25 years of 'practical experience' on Harley Facades Ltd's website.

Experts were last night focusing their blame for the scale of the disaster on external cladding fitted to the block only last year - with witnesses describing how it acted like a 'firelighter' on a barbecue as flames engulfed Grenfell in 15 minutes.


Raymond Bailey is the director of Harley Facades Limited which carried out cladding work on
Grenfell Tower in a contract valued at £2.6 million - which later went bust


LINK

What a disgusting, wretched article. Talk about a kangaroo court.

[Whiterum]

Fears for other towers dressed in 'curtain walling': Cladding company has covered six other ageing blocks in panels 'that went up like a matchstick' in London ALONE



Fears are growing for hundreds of families living in tower blocks after it was revealed the firm which supplied the panels at the centre of the west London inferno has also carried out similar work across the capital. Grenfell Tower was equipped with overcladding by East Sussex-based company Harley Facades Limited in a contract valued at £2.6 million. It has since come to light that the firm has used a similar aluminium composite material (ACM) to clad several high rises and public buildings throughout the UK, raising fears for the safety of thousands of other residents. Four 23-storey tower blocks in Camden, north London were refurbished with the cladding at a cost of £16million, as was Ferrier Point, a 23-storey block with 115 flats in Newham, east London, in 2015. Six tower blocks in Harrow, northwest London, were given the rainproof cladding when it was refurbished in 2015 in a contract worth £3.5million, as was the 13-storey Merit House, home to 114 flats in Barnet, north London. Castlemaine Tower, a 23-stroey block in Battersea, south London, was clad and refurbished by the firm in 2014, as was Clements Court in Hounslow, west London.

LINK

[auldhippy]

Jun 15, 2017 9:56:40 GMT perrykneeham said:

"stairways & lift shafts are problematic because they create chimneys to draw fires up."

Well, they're not problematic if they're built according to the Building Regulations which set out precisely what steps need to be taken to make them safe e.g. 60/60FR doors, automatic closers, intumescent strips, etc. It is inconceivable that these were not fitted in this case.

They're problematic in the sense that if they weren't needed they'd not be included (Clarity was questioning why only one). It would not have been anticipated that the only staircase would be used for anything other than emergency use.

So you just carry on conceiving the inconceivable.

[perrykneeham]

What are you gibbering about?

You don't use lifts in an emergency and the staircases is a dedicated means of escape. Sterile, no fire load, compartmentalised etc. Also, the liftshafts and stairwell in a building like that forms the sheercore which makes the building rigid.

You should, in theory, only need one. Remember that all the traffic should be going the same way in an emergency

[auldhippy]

Jun 15, 2017 11:46:54 GMT perrykneeham said:

What are you gibbering about?

You don't use lifts in an emergency and the staircases is a dedicated means of escape. Sterile, no fire load, compartmentalised etc. Also, the liftshafts and stairwell in a building like that forms the sheercore which makes the building rigid.

You should, in theory, only need one. Remember that all the traffic should be going the same way in an emergency

A point I clearly made. "It would not have been anticipated that the only staircase would be used for anything other than emergency use." numbnuts.