Pro Israel thread

[bertruss2]

At the start of Zionism the US was not involved.

The Brits opened the doors for Zionists to go ahead with their project to bring immigrants into Palestine. After Israel terrorism took the opportunity of the collapse of the British Empire to take over part of the territory, the Americans have replaced the Brits as sponsors of Israel.

Without Britain, Israel would never have begun. Without the USA its continuing efforts to wipe Palestine off the map wouldn't have gone ahead as they have.

[avieder]

Mar 27, 2019 21:37:05 GMT Gort said:

Mar 26, 2019 20:00:03 GMT avieder said:

Sure. Today we live by standards that somehow correspond to the Biblical.
A 7 day week. A family. Honesty in trade.
etc. etc.
To "Neanderthal" men, It is utterly stupid not to hunt in the seventh day.
Just like honoring a parent who might be


Ia rival for food or sex.
In short, gort, our society is a product of laws.
So, l'll ask you again, can you point at the instance that these laws appeared out of the blue in human history?

Seriously Are you that far gone with your limited open mindedness that you think because some cult leader comes up with some rules and regulations for his club and writes them down in a book that becasuse it has been recorded for the first time that it must have been a God who told him
Your mindset is definitely medievaly corrupted to be looking for any infantile excuse to connect these things to a God rather than submit to the mature rational fact there are no gods. You really do not realize how insane you are.
I would like to see you tell Muslims their god is a load of bullshiit because yours spoke to your gang leader 500 years before theirs, now does that not prove to you how absolute retarded the whole god crap is when you have over a billion muslim lunatics who's god turned up 500 years after yours yet all these muzzies believe their guy over yours.. You are all fuking lunatics with a religious liscense to keep you out of being banged up in an asylum.
Albert Einstein came up with numerous equasions never before equated, so do you think a God told him?
Furfuxake what am I saying,, of course you will..
Avi your a lost cause but it has been interesting...

When you say god you mean one thing.
For me it is different.
This is not a theological discussion but a search for source of the laws that direct our lives.
You keep avading that question which is reasonable because it is so obvious that the wisdom is too deep to fathom.
Ask your Priest, Qaddi, Rabbi why is there this universal 7 day week.

[Gort]

I hope your shrink will keep you in the meds you require to keep you sane..

[avieder]

Mar 28, 2019 2:07:26 GMT Gort said:

I hope your shrink will keep you in the meds you require to keep you sane..

I see you talk from experience.
I was once told here not to engage in argument with a fool because he is bound to bring you down to his own level and there he will win due to his more experience..

Well, its not so difficult really, you can use all the tools the Internet can provide:
When and where did humans start living by the 7 day cycle?

[Deleted]

It's debatable. Moses was educated by Egyptians, and they go back way beyond Hebrew writings. In fairness no-one can claim precedence.

And then this...

The Greeks gave us democracy, the Romans bridges and roads but it is probably from the ancient Babylonians that we get the seven-day week. link

[avieder]

Mar 28, 2019 8:14:21 GMT @oneofthelessergods said:

It's debatable. Moses was educated by Egyptians, and they go back way beyond Hebrew writings. In fairness no-one can claim precedence.

And then this...

The Greeks gave us democracy, the Romans bridges and roads but it is probably from the ancient Babylonians that we get the seven-day week. link

So, you can record it to the Romams...
I can record it to sini and with the benefit of rest in the Seventh.

[bertruss2]

I can record it to sini and with the benefit of test in the Seventh.

Assuming that refers Mount Sinai, that's a fictional account of Moses bringing down the tablets of stone with the Law written on them. In primitive societies, the Law is said to come from some god or other and there is divine punishment for disobeying it.

In reality, humans developed their survival skills over tens of thousands of years. The basic skills were in finding food through hunting or fishing and gathering plants and fruits. Since, these were co-operative efforts, they also developed rules and customs for living together in a community.

The Law is based on the practical necessities for survival and became more complex as societies became more complex. Obviously, the early techniques which enabled a few million people to live on Earth in early times, couldn't support a population of 7 thousand million today. Just as technology has moved on, so has law and morality.

Certain basics remain, but tribal law, such as that of the times of Moses and Mohammed, is no longer useful today.

[avieder]

Mar 28, 2019 9:39:04 GMT bertruss2 said:

I can record it to sini and with the benefit of test in the Seventh.

Assuming that refers Mount Sinai, that's a fictional account of Moses bringing down the tablets of stone with the Law written on them. In primitive societies, the Law is said to come from some god or other and there is divine punishment for disobeying it.

In reality, humans developed their survival skills over tens of thousands of years. The basic skills were in finding food through hunting or fishing and gathering plants and fruits. Since, these were co-operative efforts, they also developed rules and customs for living together in a community.

The Law is based on the practical necessities for survival and became more complex as societies became more complex. Obviously, the early techniques which enabled a few million people to live on Earth in early times, couldn't support a population of 7 thousand million today. Just as technology has moved on, so has law and morality.

Certain basics remain, but tribal law, such as that of the times of Moses and Mohammed, is no longer useful today.

That is more or less a Darvinistic appoach. Claiming that whatever happens is inevitable because of measurable physical parameters.
I of course disagree and claim there is a reason to it. A premeditated plan.
That plan his "hidden" in the TOTAH.
The first approach leaves humans to act like animals because anything that happens is inevitable anyway so why bother to "withhold passion"?
The second approach demands behaviour as prescribed in the Torah / Bible / Qoraan and other god fearing religions.
I can try and bring proofs that evolution with directive is impossible, like the eye..., But if you negate the fundamental concept of a Creator, I shall just leave you to continue to graze...

[moggyonspeed]

So the premeditated plan for the Holocaust was what exactly?

Sweeping under the carpet the fact that they supposedly control the media, the banks, and the world of academe by not letting the world forget that they are life's eternal victims? About as valid as all those right-wing nutjobs who claim that said Jewish control is the root cause of all today's ills.

If this is a loving God who is loved by His followers, then this renders such supporters either deluded, ignorant or wilfully stupid and I, for one, want nothing to do with Him.

[avieder]

Mar 28, 2019 13:34:54 GMT moggyonspeed said:

So the premeditated plan for the Holocaust was what exactly?

Sweeping under the carpet the fact that they supposedly control the media, the banks, and the world of academe by not letting the world forget that they are life's eternal victims? About as valid as all those right-wing nutjobs who claim that said Jewish control is the root cause of all today's ills.

If this is a loving God who is loved by His followers, then this renders such supporters either deluded, ignorant or wilfully stupid and I, for one, want nothing to do with Him.

Yes. The Holocaust, the slavery in Egypt, the destruction of the Temples, the Spanish inquisition, the pogroms of two thousand years are all from G-d our L-d.
True. Our life and existence is not a Disney movie.
Our survival of all that is the proof of our dedication to the word of the Torah.
Just for comparison, who is a better parent, that who disiplines his child or the one who pampers him?

[bertruss2]

anything that happens is inevitable anyway so why bother to "withhold passion"?

Some may try to excuse the savage cruelty of Israel towards the Palestinians by saying that it's 'inevitable' but it actually depends on factors which could change. It depends on the support of the United States. It depends on the influence of 30 million Christian Zionists in the United States. A far greater and more important factor than Jewish Zionists in the USA. But none of this is 'inevitable'.

[moggyonspeed]

"Just for comparison, who is a better parent, that who disiplines his child or the one who pampers him?"

So the Holocaust was your God disciplining your people? Sounds like pretty harsh discipline to me. Still, if harshness in discipline is a good thing, where's the beef with Iran's reportedly wanting to wipe Israel off the map? That sounds almost terminally harsh to my mind, so I guess that must be right up your street. But then again, perhaps Iran and its people weren't made by your God at all. I don't know - some kind of untermensch perhaps?

[avieder]

Mar 28, 2019 14:09:01 GMT bertruss2 said:

anything that happens is inevitable anyway so why bother to "withhold passion"?

Some may try to excuse the savage cruelty of Israel towards the Palestinians by saying that it's 'inevitable' but it actually depends on factors which could change. It depends on the support of the United States. It depends on the influence of 30 million Christian Zionists in the United States. A far greater and more important factor than Jewish Zionists in the USA. But none of this is 'inevitable'.

Back to your old loes Bett?!
There isn't and never was cruelty by Israel to anybody.

[bertruss2]

There isn't and never was cruelty by Israel to anybody

If you're going to argue that massacre and ethnic cleansing is not cruelty, then you're going to have a friendly view of the Holocaust. But you have a peculiar view of the Holocaust, if I recall.

Since the tortured reasoning for justifying the establishment of Israel is that it saved Jews, despite them being already dead, you'll have to do some complicated contortions.

[avieder]

Mar 28, 2019 15:18:45 GMT bertruss2 said:

There isn't and never was cruelty by Israel to anybody

If you're going to argue that massacre and ethnic cleansing is not cruelty, then you're going to have a friendly view of the Holocaust. But you have a peculiar view of the Holocaust, if I recall.

Since the tortured reasoning for justifying the establishment of Israel is that it saved Jews, despite them being already dead, you'll have to do some complicated contortions.

No. I am not hoing to classify your definition of cruelty only that it NEVER happened.
Get it through your head: NEVER HAPPENED.
You lie and you know it!

[avieder]

Mar 28, 2019 15:18:45 GMT bertruss2 said:

There isn't and never was cruelty by Israel to anybody

If you're going to argue that massacre and ethnic cleansing is not cruelty, then you're going to have a friendly view of the Holocaust. But you have a peculiar view of the Holocaust, if I recall.

Since the tortured reasoning for justifying the establishment of Israel is that it saved Jews, despite them being already dead, you'll have to do some complicated contortions.

No. I am not going to classify your definition of cruelty only that it NEVER happened.
Get it through your head: NEVER HAPPENED.
You lie and you know it!

The justification for creating the state of Israel has NOTHING to do with Ww2.
It has to do with historical justice and the League of nations San Remo resolution

[moggyonspeed]

www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

[moggyonspeed]

That's right - Amnesty International, that well known hotbed of anti-Semitic sentiment and promoter of Nazi bile?

They've caught you out mate, not that you can see it with your head in the sand all the time.

[avieder]

Mar 28, 2019 17:26:45 GMT moggyonspeed said:

That's right - Amnesty International, that well known hotbed of anti-Semitic sentiment and promoter of Nazi bile?

They've caught you out mate, not that you can see it with your head in the sand all the time.

What makes you think or believe any of the facts are true?
That all the circumstances were considered?
That the wordings of it reflects an existing situation....?
You don't !
I can prove that everything I write here is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[voice]

The best analogy of the religious mind set I read was this

“This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'