Politically correct statues

[jimboky]

Jun 27, 2020 23:45:34 GMT flatandy said:

Are you concerned about the lawlessness of how the statues are coming down, or the fact that the statues are coming down?

are you not concerned by the lawlessness??

I am concerned by any lawlessness, I also disagree with statues being torn down, would vote against tearing down statues of R E Lee, Grant, Lincoln, Davis, Columbus, Washington, Jefferson, Wilson, even Obama or MLK, history should be taught, and anything that supports talk about history should stay,

The civil war happened cause of a failure to talk over disagreements, much like we are having now,

[flatandy]

Statues of Hitler and Lenin and Stalin and Saddam and Gaddafi should all have stayed up in perpetuity?

Also, the Civil War happened because the South refused to give up slaves, and then decided to fight a treasonous war resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths because they were so desperate to continue holding black people as chattel. No "talks over disagreements" would have helped, unless those talks ended up with them still been able to own people they considered sub-human.

[jimboky]

Right,,,, it was cause the south didn't agree with the north, not cause the north didn't agree with the south

the southern states believed they had every right to leave the union for any reason they wished, they joined by choice and they had the right to leave by choice, I believe had they taken it to the supreme court they would have won, suspect this is why Lincoln pushed the war,, South should have never taken the bait of firing on Ft Sumter

Removal of Hitler and friends was a result of being over taken

[flatandy]

So the South should have been allowed to leave the Union so they could keep black people as slaves?

[perrykneeham]

That's not fair, but so very Remain. I don't hold with slavery, but countries do have the right to decide their own sovereignty. If you can choose to join, you can choose to leave.

Redneck.

[voice]

Sometimes you have to fight, something's are so abhorrent you have to fight to end it, slavery was one of those things. Though Jim's reimagining of the causes of the war is very much the narrative many in the south have spent 150 years pushing. The statues are part of that reimagining most having been put up decades, usually at times such as the rise of the Klan at the end of the 19th century, or the Brown decision desegregating schools or the passing of the civil rights act. Few were actual commemorations, they are statements of white supremacy sp it's no wonder only a small minority still defend them

[jimboky]

So the South should have been allowed to leave the Union so they could keep black people as slaves?





Prier to the Civil war states considered themselves to be sovereign, much like the EU, I believe under the constitution they had the right to leave for any reason,

slavery was on the way out, once the states left the union many/most would want to remove slavery due to concerns from their largest trading partner England, Virginia only went to the south as a protest of the Union marching troops through their state, had cooler heads on both sides ruled the war need not happen, the freed Slaves would likely would have prospered much faster,



however this is not really about civil war south, what's with taking down Grant and Lincoln, and Wilson?

[Repat Van]

Jun 28, 2020 14:25:39 GMT perrykneeham said:

That's not fair, but so very Remain. I don't hold with slavery, but countries do have the right to decide their own sovereignty. If you can choose to join, you can choose to leave.

Redneck.

There is a curious contradiction in this statement.

Anyway if the U.K. desire to leave the EU was driven by the UK’s desire to keep people as property I would have zero issue with the EU invading us and forcing us to remain in the EU.

[Repat Van]

Jun 28, 2020 13:58:03 GMT jimboky said:

Right,,,, it was cause the south didn't agree with the north, not cause the north didn't agree with the south

the southern states believed they had every right to leave the union for any reason they wished, they joined by choice and they had the right to leave by choice, I believe had they taken it to the supreme court they would have won, suspect this is why Lincoln pushed the war,, South should have never taken the bait of firing on Ft Sumter

Removal of Hitler and friends was a result of being over taken

Overtaken by whom?

[Repat Van]

Jun 28, 2020 13:58:03 GMT jimboky said:

Right,,,, it was cause the south didn't agree with the north, not cause the north didn't agree with the south

the southern states believed they had every right to leave the union for any reason they wished, they joined by choice and they had the right to leave by choice, I believe had they taken it to the supreme court they would have won, suspect this is why Lincoln pushed the war,, South should have never taken the bait of firing on Ft Sumter

Removal of Hitler and friends was a result of being over taken

You’ve said a lot about the freedom of the South to leave the union ignoring the inconsistency that in fighting for that right they were doing so primarily remove the rights to freedom of a large part of their populace.

The “freedom” argument this sounds rather weak in that context.

[voice]

Jun 28, 2020 15:56:00 GMT jimboky said:

So the South should have been allowed to leave the Union so they could keep black people as slaves?





Prier to the Civil war states considered themselves to be sovereign, much like the EU, I believe under the constitution they had the right to leave for any reason,

slavery was on the way out, once the states left the union many/most would want to remove slavery due to concerns from their largest trading partner England, Virginia only went to the south as a protest of the Union marching troops through their state, had cooler heads on both sides ruled the war need not happen, the freed Slaves would likely would have prospered much faster,



however this is not really about civil war south, what's with taking down Grant and Lincoln, and Wilson?

This is the kind of myth making the south have at for 150 years. Facts are slavery was not on the way out, in fact southern states were trying to expand slavery to new states wanting to be part of the union. England might have been anti slavery but they were so reliant on slave produces cotton they didn't care one way or another as long as cotton shipments continued, in fact many in Lancashire cotton towns supported the south as the blockade caused a cotton famine that caused widespread desperation.

As for taking down Grant and Lincoln, well obviously it's stupid, but as we all know the intelligence of a mob drops the larger it becomes. Also the us education system is so badly funded and run many probably haven't been taught history, you clearly haven't.

[voice]

The lost cause theory pushed by the white supremacists of the south as part of efforts to keep the black population down, remember Mississippi only added the traitors flag to their state flag in 1890 as push back to reconstruction was at its hight and where mobs of whites were burning and lynching large number of blacks throughout the south.

[perrykneeham]

Jun 28, 2020 15:56:14 GMT Repat Van said:

Jun 28, 2020 14:25:39 GMT perrykneeham said:

That's not fair, but so very Remain. I don't hold with slavery, but countries do have the right to decide their own sovereignty. If you can choose to join, you can choose to leave.

Redneck.

There is a curious contradiction in this statement.

Anyway if the U.K. desire to leave the EU was driven by the UK’s desire to keep people as property I would have zero issue with the EU invading us and forcing us to remain in the EU.

What are you struggling with? States, like people, have a right to their sovereignty. Although, in fairness, that has limits. Maybe states, like people, have a right to their sovereignty, so long as they're not hurting anyone else. Playing the white man, as it were.

[jimboky]

As for taking down Grant and Lincoln, well obviously it's stupid, but as we all know the intelligence of a mob drops the larger it becomes. Also the us education system is so badly funded and run many probably haven't been taught history, you clearly haven't.





it's the same people wanting to take down Lee and Davis, and yes they are stupid,,, The US has the most funding of any country in education, little however is being spent on history, sadly

[unclejunior]

John Wayne is up next
Re: Renaming John Wayne Airport

www.foxnews.com/politics/california-democrats-resolution-john-wayne-airport-renamed

Of course the Democrats will want to do this …

[mids]

The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down will be banned next. Even though it was written by a Canadian.

[perrykneeham]

A Canadian racist. They're famous for it. Look at their PM, Uncle Ben Trudeau.

[flatandy]

When they make me President, I'm going to remove all these stupid names from airports. We might keep some politicians like Logan or La Guardia, but all the new names like John Wayne or John Lennon or Dizzie Gillespie or George Best will be out the door. They're totally useless ways of identifying where the airport is. We'll rename John Wayne Airport (where the hell is that?) to Orange County or Santa Ana airport. We'll rename George Best (is that in Manchester?) airport to Belfast airport. They already did that with the ridiculous "Robin Hood airport" in Doncaster.

[mids]

I'm going to call them all Margaret Thatcher Airport.

[flatandy]

That's going to get confusing.