|
|
Post by flatandy on Aug 18, 2021 21:26:59 GMT
"And, in an emotional speech that was heard in silence, he told of grief and rage felt by veterans at the "abandonment" of Afghanistan."
Frankly, tough sh*t. You're off in a foreign occupation and colonial war propping up a kleptocracy, what outcome do you want? More soldiers sent out to die forever just so you don't feel your presence there had been a waste? Are we meant to spend trillions of pointless foreign wars to stop poor little Squaddie getting his feelings hurt?
You can probably make a presentable case that the withdrawal was handled badly*. But that's not the nonsense of this line of argument. This line seems to be that the corrupt and failed Afghan government should never have been allowed to collapse because poor Johnny Infantry would feel bad about his time on the ground.
*The timing may have been off. And clearly civilians should have been got out first. And clearly collaborators should have been given visas and a clear route to the western countries they collaborated for before air support was withdrawn.
|
|
|
|
Post by flatandy on Aug 18, 2021 21:32:49 GMT
I've seen it suggested that the "west" could have continued to provide air support for the Afghan government.
While that would have been nice, it's not at all clear how it could have happened. There's no US airbase in any of the adjacent countries. It is no shock to discover Pakistan, China, Iran and various Central Asian Russian puppet states don't want US planes on their soil.
And the only way to get to Afghanistan from an aircraft carrier is flying over several hundred miles of Iranian or Pakistani airspace, and that's not going to happen on a daily basis to support Afghan troops.
|
|
|
|
Post by Repat Van on Aug 18, 2021 23:00:21 GMT
the guy sitting in the chair on the left in the palace? the obama/biden team released him after he promised to be a good boy. View Attachment"Taliban fighters took control of the Afghan presidential palace"thanks barack and joe! good job! Yep we aware the USA f**k*d up royally. |
|
|
|
Post by Repat Van on Aug 18, 2021 23:01:52 GMT
I think all US citizens who want to be out are already out. Afghans who want to leave are apparently mostly restricted either by access to the airport or by their inability to get visas because the previous administration basically put a hard cap on the number of refugees allowed into the country and made it as hard as possible to get refugee status in the US. couldn't possibly be because the taliban have circled the airport and won't let anyone through, could it? nah, thats crazy talk. it's gotta be trumps fault. So you would be pro those Afghans who cooperated with you receiving refugee status? |
|
|
|
Post by Repat Van on Aug 18, 2021 23:02:38 GMT
this isn't just a usa disaster, it's a nato disaster. but so far diplomacy joe is ignoring our allies except for a call to boris johnson. Maybe he's hoping to surrender USA to UK. Best option really. Eugh! |
|
voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,270
|
Post by voice on Aug 18, 2021 23:04:47 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Repat Van on Aug 18, 2021 23:06:23 GMT
Completely unsurprising. Wrong ethnicity. |
|
|
|
Post by Repat Van on Aug 18, 2021 23:07:46 GMT
“ So, first we invade, and then we’re invaded. It is always the same.”
Conservatives so close to making a point…
|
|
voice
New Member
Goals are a form of self inflicted slavery
Posts: 41,270
|
Post by voice on Aug 19, 2021 0:42:44 GMT
Many on the far right are talking about this cockwomble running for President next time if Trump wimps out, he makes Trumps venal xenophobia look mild by comparison.
|
|
|
|
Post by Marshall on Aug 19, 2021 0:44:36 GMT
The Afghanis letting their country fall even outdid the French in WW2. A couple decades of pouring money and manpower into getting them to a point where they could (supposedly) defend themselves was a massive waste. Apparently their loyalties lie with the Taliban, so f**k 'em.
And the hope that we would see a more moderate brand of these rejects turned out to be wishful thinking. They've already killed one woman for the grave sin of not wearing a burqa.
I'm glad we're out. And yes, it looks like Biden did a grand job of turning the withdrawal into a grade A clusterfuck.
|
|
rick49
New Member
Posts: 17,031
|
Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 1:12:32 GMT
is he actually calling the shots or just a figurehead? sometimes he seems lucid and other times he just seems to drift away somewhere. Joe Biden Isn’t in Charge. Who Is?humanevents.com/2021/03/30/charlie-kirk-joe-biden-isnt-in-charge-who-is/if he is still running the show, his decisions are terrifying. and our allies know it even as our enemies smile, laugh, and cheer. if he isn't in charge, who is? harris? pelosi? the squad? |
|
rick49
New Member
Posts: 17,031
|
Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 1:24:31 GMT
has a ring to it. and panache. |
|
rick49
New Member
Posts: 17,031
|
Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 1:28:28 GMT
Probably better to go for a fresh start. New Australia? not bad. |
|
rick49
New Member
Posts: 17,031
|
Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 1:57:15 GMT
couldn't possibly be because the taliban have circled the airport and won't let anyone through, could it? nah, thats crazy talk. it's gotta be trumps fault. So you would be pro those Afghans who cooperated with you receiving refugee status? of course. no problem with that. but i would limit it to those who helped us, not the entire population of afghanistan. if we don't let in those who helped us, they're dead. |
|
rick49
New Member
Posts: 17,031
|
Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 2:24:29 GMT
looks like uncle joe stepped in it again when he accused afghanis of cowardice. British MP: It's shameful to see Biden question the courage of the Afghan troops I fought with"A quietly brutal speech, worth every minute of your time. Tom Tugendhat is a veteran of the British military who was stationed in Helmand province and is among the many, many people to take issue with Biden’s self-serving claim this week that Americans shouldn’t be asked to fight for people who won’t fight for themselves. They did fight, Tugendhat reminds him. In fact, they took 500 times more KIAs in the past six years than we did. The idea that Afghan troops failed because they lacked the guts rather than the logistical support to carry on is a useful deception for the White House in convincing Americans with misgivings that withdrawal wasn’t just strategically correct but morally correct." “Those who have never fought for the colors they fly should be careful about criticizing those who have,” Tugendhat says icily in reference to Biden, to murmurs of approval from the House of Commons.hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/08/18/british-mp-its-shameful-to-see-biden-question-the-courage-of-the-afghan-troops-i-fought-with-n409751yes, some afghani soldiers ran away, but a lot of them fought. estimates are 60 thousand soldiers and police died fighting the taliban. history repeating itself. at the end of the vietnam war, politicians said the same thing about the south vietnamese army. again yes, some ran, but a lot of them fought like tigers against the vietcong and the norths regular army. |
|
bertruss2
New Member
https://wallpapercave.com/w/wp3765741
Posts: 5,596
|
Post by bertruss2 on Aug 19, 2021 6:33:34 GMT
South Vietnam was a phony state, created by the Americans when they took over from the French after they were driven out of Indochina. Afghanistan (the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, which has just collapsed) was another house of cards, created as part of the American empire that is the successor of the European empires.
|
|
mids
New Member
Posts: 61,099
Member is Online
|
Post by mids on Aug 19, 2021 6:56:21 GMT
It's always the Democrats who abandon their allies.
|
|
ootlg
New Member
Posts: 10,381
|
Post by ootlg on Aug 19, 2021 6:56:57 GMT
Dunkirk.
|
|
ootlg
New Member
Posts: 10,381
|
Post by ootlg on Aug 19, 2021 7:01:41 GMT
You can see how wars start by reading these posts. The Americans. The Afghans. The British. The French. And so on, as if a nation of people were as one. This is about a tiny minority of those nations, the politicians and players who screwed up, not 'the people'. Most of the people within those nations don't want anything to do with all this shite.
|
|
|
|
Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2021 7:16:55 GMT
I've seen it suggested that the "west" could have continued to provide air support for the Afghan government. While that would have been nice, it's not at all clear how it could have happened. There's no US airbase in any of the adjacent countries. It is no shock to discover Pakistan, China, Iran and various Central Asian Russian puppet states don't want US planes on their soil. And the only way to get to Afghanistan from an aircraft carrier is flying over several hundred miles of Iranian or Pakistani airspace, and that's not going to happen on a daily basis to support Afghan troops. Pish. The Americans clearly had overflight arrangements. I am told that they also have transit landing arrangements in Russia itself. The Yanks have shedloads of kit that would allow them to overfly most countries without them being able to do a bloody thing about it even if they were resistant to US bullying and/or bribery, which they most certainly ain't. |
|
