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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2021 7:19:10 GMT
Maybe he's hoping to surrender USA to UK. Best option really. Eugh! Now, now. It's time to be magnanimous. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2021 7:23:51 GMT
"And, in an emotional speech that was heard in silence, he told of grief and rage felt by veterans at the "abandonment" of Afghanistan." Frankly, tough sh*t. You're off in a foreign occupation and colonial war propping up a kleptocracy, what outcome do you want? More soldiers sent out to die forever just so you don't feel your presence there had been a waste? Are we meant to spend trillions of pointless foreign wars to stop poor little Squaddie getting his feelings hurt? You can probably make a presentable case that the withdrawal was handled badly*. But that's not the nonsense of this line of argument. This line seems to be that the corrupt and failed Afghan government should never have been allowed to collapse because poor Johnny Infantry would feel bad about his time on the ground. *The timing may have been off. And clearly civilians should have been got out first. And clearly collaborators should have been given visas and a clear route to the western countries they collaborated for before air support was withdrawn. Yeah, I'm bloody sick of hearing from part time squaddies cracking on like they're in possession of special insight or moral authority. You served, thank you. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2021 7:27:29 GMT
Okay,what would you have had him done? I think it's fair to say that the US is the senior partner and that the UK's armed forces would struggle to knock the skin off a custard these days. |
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Aug 19, 2021 7:28:54 GMT
As I said, get the evacuations sorted first, then pull out. Ooh, sounds a bit rude, that. All a bit weird this. Didn't Biden's advisers advise him? It's not as if we don't know from history what happens there. In 1842 the British were hanging on until they decided to retreat, then they were slaughtered almost to the man. You don't get out of Afghanistan easily - murderous bastards, past masters at guerilla warfare + difficult terrain and weather = a problem for occupying forces who realise they've done a wrong 'un. Easy to get in, hard to get out - known fact. Why didn't Biden know?
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2021 7:35:43 GMT
He knew. He just took the route which would save the most American blood and treasure, in the short term. It was like a going out of business sale where even the fixtures and fittings are up for grabs.
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Aug 19, 2021 7:41:18 GMT
Yeah, like 'fuck it, can't be arsed to think about this'..
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2021 7:44:27 GMT
You're right, there does seem to be an element of tired and teasy about this whole thing. It was never going to be America's best day but it seems like they just had a bit of a fit of frustration and laziness.
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2021 7:48:38 GMT
I was sorry to see that Rory Stewart is back in the public debate. Tosser.
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Post by wetkingcanute on Aug 19, 2021 8:47:35 GMT
 click to enlarge Lady Butler's famous oil 'The Remnants of an Army' which depicts Dr Brydon's exhausted arrival at the walls of the British Garrison at Jalalabad on his collapsing nag. The last survivors of the 44th Foot were exposed and surrounded at dawn as they stood at the top of the hill of Gandamak. Overwhelmingly outnumbered the troops made their last stand. They formed a square and defended themselves, "driving the Afghans several times down the hill" until they exhausted the last of their rounds and then fought on with their bayonets. Then, one by one, they were slaughted. As ootlg says - it is not easy to get out of Afghanistan. This was around 1841 |
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2021 8:52:48 GMT
Well, apparently it's dead easy. It's not pretty though.
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rick49
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Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 10:33:01 GMT
holy cow. Joe Biden Disbanded State Department Crisis Response Bureau Prior to Taliban Takeover"Now, a revelation has come forth showing that Biden canceled the Contingency and Crisis Response Bureau prior to the Taliban taking over Afghanistan. This was a Trump-era program that existed specifically to handle what we are seeing on the ground right now." "The Biden State Department moved in June to cancel a program overseeing the protection and evacuation of American citizens stationed overseas in the case of an emergency, just as the Taliban was taking over Afghanistan, according to an internal State Department memo obtained by the Washington Free Beacon and multiple sources familiar with the matter." "The Biden State Department moved to dissolve the Trump-era crisis response program, according to an internal State Department memo and sources familiar with the matter." theconservativespost.com/2021/08/19/bombshell-joe-biden-disbanded-state-department-crisis-response-bureau-prior-to-taliban-takeover/"The Contingency and Crisis Response Bureau (CCR) designed to help Americans abroad was discontinued before the Taliban takeover in Afghanistan" "A memo was signed to end the bureau on June 11 by members of the Biden administration" www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9906927/CCR-bureau-designed-help-Americans-abroad-axed-Biden-administration-Taliban-takeover.html |
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rick49
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Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 10:57:02 GMT
Townhall.com
@townhallcom
"Joe Biden dismisses concerns over images and videos of Afghans falling thousands of feet to their deaths trying to escape Taliban rule in Afghanistan:
“That was four days ago, five days ago.”
can't you feel the empathy?
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rick49
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Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 11:07:34 GMT
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rick49
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Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 11:25:18 GMT
"And, in an emotional speech that was heard in silence, he told of grief and rage felt by veterans at the "abandonment" of Afghanistan."
Frankly, tough sh*t. You're off in a foreign occupation and colonial war propping up a kleptocracy, what outcome do you want? More soldiers sent out to die forever just so you don't feel your presence there had been a waste? Are we meant to spend trillions of pointless foreign wars to stop poor little Squaddie getting his feelings hurt?
when did you serve in the military?
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Post by flatandy on Aug 19, 2021 11:44:44 GMT
I've seen it suggested that the "west" could have continued to provide air support for the Afghan government. While that would have been nice, it's not at all clear how it could have happened. There's no US airbase in any of the adjacent countries. It is no shock to discover Pakistan, China, Iran and various Central Asian Russian puppet states don't want US planes on their soil. And the only way to get to Afghanistan from an aircraft carrier is flying over several hundred miles of Iranian or Pakistani airspace, and that's not going to happen on a daily basis to support Afghan troops. Pish. The Americans clearly had overflight arrangements. I am told that they also have transit landing arrangements in Russia itself. The Yanks have shedloads of kit that would allow them to overfly most countries without them being able to do a bloody thing about it even if they were resistant to US bullying and/or bribery, which they most certainly ain't. But not in a way that could provide continued air support for months and years for the Afghan military. Flying helicopter support out of Baghram when a convoy is under attack is hard to replicate with F-18s on a carrier somewhere in the Arabian Sea. If the US was running one off bombing missions that would be another thing entirely. It’s clear that the US never supplied the Afghans with air power hardware so the Afghan military were dependent on US air support for regular operations, and that can’t happen once the US has no airbase within several hundred miles. Pretty much every US helicopter would run out of fuel before they got into Afghan airspace from the Pakistani coast, let alone getting to Kabul, even less getting back again. |
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Post by flatandy on Aug 19, 2021 11:47:55 GMT
"And, in an emotional speech that was heard in silence, he told of grief and rage felt by veterans at the "abandonment" of Afghanistan."
Frankly, tough sh*t. You're off in a foreign occupation and colonial war propping up a kleptocracy, what outcome do you want? More soldiers sent out to die forever just so you don't feel your presence there had been a waste? Are we meant to spend trillions of pointless foreign wars to stop poor little Squaddie getting his feelings hurt?when did you serve in the military? Are you saying we should have stayed in Afghanistan forever to protect the hurt feelings of soldiers? |
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rick49
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Post by rick49 on Aug 19, 2021 12:14:14 GMT
i'm saying your tough sh*t attitude towards those who may have lost legs or arms in that war is outrageous. but it's a typical attitude on the left as they sit comfy cozy and sling their mud.
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ootlg
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Post by ootlg on Aug 19, 2021 12:26:27 GMT
There was never any need to go rampaging about in the middle east. Anywhere come to that. And if you sign up for the armed forces it's a risk you take.
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Post by flatandy on Aug 19, 2021 12:31:09 GMT
I'm saying tough sh*t to those in the military who are complaining that "abandoning" Afghanistan has left them feeling "grief and rage". Strategy decisions shouldn't be made on the basis of whether they'll hurt the feelings of soldiers.
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Post by perrykneeham on Aug 19, 2021 12:53:51 GMT
Pish. The Americans clearly had overflight arrangements. I am told that they also have transit landing arrangements in Russia itself. The Yanks have shedloads of kit that would allow them to overfly most countries without them being able to do a bloody thing about it even if they were resistant to US bullying and/or bribery, which they most certainly ain't. But not in a way that could provide continued air support for months and years for the Afghan military. Flying helicopter support out of Baghram when a convoy is under attack is hard to replicate with F-18s on a carrier somewhere in the Arabian Sea. If the US was running one off bombing missions that would be another thing entirely. It’s clear that the US never supplied the Afghans with air power hardware so the Afghan military were dependent on US air support for regular operations, and that can’t happen once the US has no airbase within several hundred miles. Pretty much every US helicopter would run out of fuel before they got into Afghan airspace from the Pakistani coast, let alone getting to Kabul, even less getting back again. It's a bit of a false narrative that helicopters were required. Most of what they needed could have been done with long-loitering B-52s and drones. Also, the Americans set the Afghans up with their own COIN turboprop ground attack aircraft. They just didn't want to. |
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