Afghanistan

[bertruss2]

An essential part of the NATO plan to build a new nation was to eliminate the unsuitable material. The failure to kill enough Afghans to achieve this end is not something entirely to be regretted, is it? What death toll would supporters of ongoing war think should have been the aim?

[voice]

The idea Bush and his neo cons had back in 2001 that all they needed to do was roll in and tell the Afghans how free they were now and they would suddenly become the Denmark of 'stans' was risible at the time and 20 years later its still much the same. Same as saying this is all Bidens fault, I mean how idiotic do you need to be to think that?

[voice]

Though nation building is far more than air support or thousands of foreign troops fighting Afghanistan's civil wars for them, 20 years to tackle corruption - nothing achieved, no building of an effective civil service or judiciary and so on. In fact many are welcoming the Taliban cos they don't have to pay bribe after bribe to the court or to official to get things done now. How bad must it have been for some to say 'phew the Taliban are now in charge of city hall, things might be less corrupt now'?

[flatandy]

Aug 16, 2021 21:28:52 GMT perrykneeham said:

I don't need to do that. It's neither here nor there to a discussion about how Biden has massively mis-managed this exit and showed the US to be a giant retarded baby squirming in its own incontinence.

That being said, maybe the World's superpower might have been able to bring order to a runway long enough to cover its wretched departure ....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-58226712

So, like everyone else:

"This has been a disaster. But I offer no suggestion on how it could have been done better."

Feeble.

[rick49]

as expected, the big guy absolves himself from any and all responsibility and blames everyone and anyone but himself.

[rick49]

Aug 16, 2021 18:22:49 GMT perrykneeham said:

If the Taliban are shrewd, which I think we have to accept they are, they'll refrain from savagery and just become a moderate Islamic government.

Hostage to fortune here, but I think Muslims are pretty sick of that sort of Islam. It's not brought them much luck, has it? I suspect that al-Q will be f**k*d off out of it PDQ, if they were ever there.

they have released all al-qaeda and isis prisoners. they are ripping young girls from their homes and forcing them to marry their fighters.

[rick49]

biden refused all questions and immediately headed back to his bed at camp david where he will sleep like a baby.

[bertruss2]

Pakistan already has 3 million Afghan refugees. How many more will cross the border as the US-installed government falls apart? How many refugees will the USA accept?

[rick49]

china to taiwan-"america will abandon you too."

[rick49]

donkey talking head on tv says taliban will create an inclusive govt. said it with a straight face.

[bertruss2]

The Taliban are the armed forces of the Pashtuns, Afghanistan's largest tribe. I don't suppose the other tribes have very socially advanced ideas. It should be quite possible for the Pashtuns to form a government coalition with like-minded members of other tribes. It's politically essential to include other tribespeople to avoid civil war. This is also a vital consideration for Pakistan, since 43 million Pashtun live in its northern provinces, and they would be drawn into a renewed conflict in Afghanistan.

[voice]

It's funny I mean I know lies and hypocracy are the idiots stock and trade, but his hysterical witterings don't contrast well to his effusive praise of looser boy when he surrendered to the Taliban 18 months ago and was about to roll out the red carpet for them (thick red carpet no doubt to save his knees). Funny that last year it 'we should get out quickly as possible and sod the fall out', now 'it why are we leaving?'

[voice]

Just saw a bit of the news and polling just out say Biden has 55% support for his Afghanistan pull out policy. It's even higher for supporting the end of US involvement in Afghanistan.

Didn't catch the pollster though.

[Repat Van]

Aug 16, 2021 14:33:02 GMT rick49 said:

Aug 16, 2021 13:47:26 GMT Repat Van said:

So you think what Afghanistan needs is for the Taliban to be in power?

Ok.

obviously biden does.

Well it looks like the past and present USA administration are fine with the Taliban being in power.

Out of interest what is you preferred option? That the USA rips up Trump’s agreement and extends their time in Afghanistan to do PROPER national building (instead of just running a colony.)?

A Marshall Plan for Afghanistan?

[Repat Van]

Aug 16, 2021 14:39:27 GMT flatandy said:

I've seen a lot of takes about how "disastrous" western intervention has been. I'm not sure it's been that disastrous for most Afghans - things seem to be going back to where they were 20 years ago. The Taliban are in charge. It's not disastrous in the sense of taking a poor situation and making it much, much worse like the US did in Vietnam or the US did in Panama or the US did in Iraq or the US did in Somalia. It's taking a disastrous situation to start with and ending up with the same disastrous situation. It's been pretty disastrous for the US taxpayer and very disastrous for the people who've died in the past 20 years. But it's not been disastrous in the way it's presented by some.

Well yes it seem like...well we’re just where we were 20 years ago.

[Repat Van]

Aug 16, 2021 14:45:20 GMT rick49 said:

Aug 16, 2021 14:01:42 GMT wetkingcanute said:

On February 29, 2020, the US and the Taliban signed a peace agreement titled the Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan, with provisions including the withdrawal of all regular American and NATO troops from Afghanistan, a Taliban pledge to prevent al-Qaeda from operating in areas under Taliban control, and talks between the Taliban and the government of the then Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. The deal was supported by China, Pakistan, and Russia, and unanimously endorsed by the United Nations Security Council.

The Trump administration agreed to an initial reduction from 13,000 to 8,600 troops by July 2020, followed by a full withdrawal by May 1 2021

trumps plans was conditional. if the taliban did what they are doing now, they would have paid a very heavy price for it. biden plan was unconditional. biden told the taliban "here, it's yours. do whatever you want because i don't care."

www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/donald-trump-weighs-in-on-afghanistan-if-i-was-president-things-would-be-different.html

You’re bending like a pretzel.

[Repat Van]

Aug 16, 2021 17:37:25 GMT rick49 said:

even the leftie media and our allies are calling biden out. and andy and the nurse continue to support what biden is doing and has done.

So do you support US troops reentering Afghanistan and remaining their with no end date until a fully functioning democracy is in place?

[Repat Van]

Aug 16, 2021 18:22:49 GMT perrykneeham said:

If the Taliban are shrewd, which I think we have to accept they are, they'll refrain from savagery and just become a moderate Islamic government.

Hostage to fortune here, but I think Muslims are pretty sick of that sort of Islam. It's not brought them much luck, has it? I suspect that al-Q will be f**k*d off out of it PDQ, if they were ever there.

I think...this is hopelessly naive. Religious zealotry is a trip.

But I do hope you’re right.

[Repat Van]

Aug 16, 2021 18:28:39 GMT mids said:

I was kind of thinking the same. They might just settle down and be content with being a nasty, crappy Saudi style government. There'll be some sort of purge I expect, there always is with socialists, but maybe a few 10s of thousands of deaths will keep them happy. Then andy, voice 'n' van can get back to fretting about "incels" and wolf whistling.

This is some gold plated whataboutery.

Well done.

It is funny to see people such as Mids, who literally could not care less about Afghanistan, display faux concern about the extent to which others may, or may not be discussing the situation there.

[mids]

Has Biden resigned in disgrace yet?