US Supreme Court, women's bodily autonomy cancelled

[Psalms]

Jun 28, 2022 18:08:29 GMT Repat Van said:

Good old Onion:

“ It’s a great day, but women’s autonomy over their bodies can always resurface if we’re not careful.”

It troubles me when a mother kills her own offspring

[flatandy]

Offspring have to have sprung off before they can be considered offspring.

[Repat Van]

Jun 29, 2022 13:37:58 GMT Psalms said:

Jun 28, 2022 18:08:29 GMT Repat Van said:

Good old Onion:

“ It’s a great day, but women’s autonomy over their bodies can always resurface if we’re not careful.”

:D :D

It troubles me when a mother kills her own offspring O_o

We’re discussing abortion not infanticide.

[Psalms]

Update . . when a child looks acts feels like a child - it's a child. Location or umbilical cord not withstanding

[Repat Van]

Jun 29, 2022 14:16:36 GMT Psalms said:

Update . . when a child looks acts feels like a child - it's a child. Location or umbilical cord not withstanding

Infanticide =\= abortion.

Can’t help if that’s a concept you struggle with.

[ootlg]

Full circle. Again. OK... I'm against abortion in principle.

I'm not against abortion in extraordinary circumstances, like child deformity, danger to the mother, rape, age of mother, etc etc etc.

But I've settled on female bodily autonomy; it's up to the female; her decision.

[flatandy]

Jun 29, 2022 15:30:23 GMT ootlg said:

Full circle. Again. OK... I'm against abortion in principle.

I'm not against abortion in extraordinary circumstances, like child deformity, danger to the mother, rape, age of mother, etc etc etc.

But I've settled on female bodily autonomy; it's up to the female; her decision.

Yes. This is a reasonable position. You can be against abortion, personally, and still be aware that it's none of your business what a woman does with her body.

[Psalms]

The State has the obligation to protect its citizens - and the unborn should have protections like any other

[flatandy]

Yet the unborn aren't citizens under any definitions.

[Repat Van]

Jun 29, 2022 16:27:33 GMT Psalms said:

The State has the obligation to protect its citizens - and the unborn should have protections like any other

Why do people like you not realise women are people and citizens too?

[mids]

When you say "women", what do you mean exactly? Can you define the word?

[voice]

Jun 29, 2022 16:27:33 GMT Psalms said:

The State has the obligation to protect its citizens - and the unborn should have protections like any other

Nah the state for the most part in the US don't give a stuff about kids once born, won't give paid family leave, won't give sufficient Healthcare or education and will do nothing to reign in widespread gun ownership that is the leading cause of death in many places. So it's bollox argument to suggest taking away a woman's rights over her body is just the state caring for its citizens, especially as this ruling will increase maternal death.

[jimboky]

the supreme court has only one mission, that is to protect the constitution, it is not there to rule on the merits of any case, abortion is not a constitutional right.... therefor it is the states to figure out how best to deal with it, just like all other medical issues

[flatandy]

The constitution provides a right to privacy, and it's clear that abortion is a matter of personal privacy.

The constitution doesn't have to enumerate every specific individual thing that it protects.

Also, the federal government could and should legislate on this - it's not just down to the supreme court and the states. The federal government could legislate that all states must allow abortions up to, say, 20 weeks, and after that the constitution and states could bicker over what was left.

[flatandy]

Also, the supreme court's other rulings this term suggest that they don't merely have a job to protect the constitution.

They decided that a sports coach could coerce his students into participating in prayer - excluding them from the team should they refuse - during a loud demonstration of his religion on the half-way line at a publicly funded school. Which absolutely breaches the separation of church and state.

They have decided in their gun rulings that the words in the constitution don't matter

They have created an utterly bizarre and untestable "test" that if something is in the "history and tradition" of the country it's fine. A new and utterly weird doctrine that has nothing to do with the constitution.

[Psalms]

Jun 29, 2022 16:40:11 GMT mids said:

When you say "women", what do you mean exactly? Can you define the word?

LOL Not even a Supreme Court black woman nominee can answer that one !

[Psalms]

Jun 29, 2022 16:40:11 GMT mids said:

When you say "women", what do you mean exactly? Can you define the word?

But I do know one when I see one . .

[Psalms]

A good analogy for abortion is the previous practice of American slavery :

1. A slave was said not have a soul, and therefore was not considered fully human, making them equal to livestock. The owner could kill any part of his herd if he so chose.

2. The unborn is also not considered human, and therefore the carrier (the mother) can kill any number that she conceives.

In fact, the literary masterpiece - Uncle Tom's Cabin - was written to teach the general public that black slaves are human by showing that they are able to become Christians because they do in fact have souls (unlike an animal) and therefore can be saved and one day enter Heaven. Tom was shown to be the ultimate Christian - the perfect example

[flatandy]

Yeah, but even if those are your criteria, which are ridiculous criteria, babies in the womb have no agency to become Christian and choose to have Christ as their lord and saviour.

[Psalms]

"Ridiculous" is not the correct word choice (diction, mind)

So on top of killing the unborn, the female (no way a mother) has also denied them their opportunity for freedom of choice as to religion.

Where's the "choice" for the unborn?