FCUK SOCIETY!

[perrykneeham]

I'm sober, honestly. Okay, I've had one bottle of Heineken (and very nice it was too).

I propose another occasional thread for things that are glaringly unjust and broken in our society.

My inaugural topic is education which is shockingly shite in UK and, in my opinion, the greatest and most persistent cause of social injustice

[perrykneeham]

I've just been listening to Martin "the money saving expert" Lewis on BBC Radio 4's Political Thinking. What a self-serving, pushy cunt he is.

The privately-educated multi-millionaire played just about every card imaginable during the course of the interview but he basically came across as a massive ego on the make.

He's one of those people who's always saying how he was marginalised and not given a fair shout and yet, here he is. The problem is that people probably just didn't like him and didn't trust him. He seems very weasely

Also, he claims to walk 20,000 steps every day at least and average 25,000 over a week. That seems very unlikely.

[flatandy]

Inequality in education is, indeed, the greatest cause of social injustice. I fully agree. It doesn’t help that money funnels the best education, the best educators and the best equipment to the scions of money.

I’ve never heard Martin Lewis, but there is a tendency among the privately-educated multi-millionaire class to believe that they are self-made through their own work and genius and not be aware that even if that were true most of the public had far less opportunity top get there. And, Elon Musk-like, think that they are somehow the victims of society’s unfairness.

[yord]

Social injustice is good, otherwise who would empty my bin

[perrykneeham]

Jun 25, 2022 17:23:19 GMT flatandy said:

Inequality in education is, indeed, the greatest cause of social injustice. I fully agree. It doesn’t help that money funnels the best education, the best educators and the best equipment to the scions of money.

I’ve never heard Martin Lewis, but there is a tendency among the privately-educated multi-millionaire class to believe that they are self-made through their own work and genius and not be aware that even if that were true most of the public had far less opportunity top get there. And, Elon Musk-like, think that they are somehow the victims of society’s unfairness.

If you'll forgive me, I think your outlook may be informed by your attendance at once of those "comps" whose pupils are drawn very heavily from the middle-class intelligencia. In many ways, no fairer than Eton or Winchester.

That's a sincerely intended criticism with no malice. I just don't think you realise how poor educational provision and expectation are. Or how patchy.

[flatandy]

Jun 25, 2022 18:26:06 GMT perrykneeham said:

Jun 25, 2022 17:23:19 GMT flatandy said:

Inequality in education is, indeed, the greatest cause of social injustice. I fully agree. It doesn’t help that money funnels the best education, the best educators and the best equipment to the scions of money.

I’ve never heard Martin Lewis, but there is a tendency among the privately-educated multi-millionaire class to believe that they are self-made through their own work and genius and not be aware that even if that were true most of the public had far less opportunity top get there. And, Elon Musk-like, think that they are somehow the victims of society’s unfairness.

If you'll forgive me, I think your outlook may be informed by your attendance at once of those "comps" whose pupils are drawn very heavily from the middle-class intelligencia. In many ways, no fairer than Eton or Winchester.

That's a sincerely intended criticism with no malice. I just don't think you realise how poor educational provision and expectation are. Or how patchy.

Oh! I fully and entirely agree. I was at the kind of comp that was driven to quality by having rich, educated, engaged parents involved in running it and making sure their kids had a decent education, far better than comprehensives in most of the rest of the country and better than many fee-paying schools. Also, being Oxford academics, their kids had tons of books and had parents who encouraged all parts of education (apart from sport), and that meant even the kids of non-academics were in that environment, it fed off itself and created a very good quality schooling and education system that - in the best case scenario - wouldn't be available universally. It was fairer than private education, because at least nominally everyone had access. Of course "everyone" was very limited by catchment area - not as unaffordable as now and a number of kids of actual working class peasant scum went to my school as a result, but still that catchment area made it more exclusive that many other comps.

All that said, having the most engaged parents actually working to improve the comprehensive school system is clearly better than letting them opt out and not give a f**k how utterly terrible it is, which the fee-paying school system currently allows.

[perrykneeham]

Well, it's both isn't it? I don't think that liberal parents who've gamed the system are any better or more sincere advocates of better education for everyone than parents (or kids) who had the opportunities of private education.

It's a bit precious to pretend otherwise.

[flatandy]

True. But the more parents who're in the system improving it, rather than removing themselves from it completely, the better the overall outcomes.

The system as it existed worked for me, and I am entirely aware that my dad would have quickly put me into private education if the comprehensives hadn't been gamed.

But the overall state education system isn't going to be improved if the people who're capable of improving it have no perceived stake in improving it (and arguably have a stake in making sure the money they pay for their offspring gives them an step up over the peasant scum, so keeping the peasants a little less well educated.)

[perrykneeham]

I think it's a fallacy to suggest that parents who send their kids to private school, or their kids, are any less invested in improving education for everyone than anyone else.

Again, if you'll forgive me, you really need to believe otherwise.

My Mum continued to teach in her community long after she retired and my Dad drove the school bus.

[flatandy]

I don't think it's a fallacy at all. But I think you're also framing it slightly wrongly. It's not that they're less invested than other people (I'm not really invested at all in kids' education). It's that they're less invested in the state system than they'd be if their kids were in the state system.

[perrykneeham]

That simply doesn't follow.

[flatandy]

Do you not think people want the best for their kids?

[perrykneeham]

It's quite possible to want the best for your kids and those of others.

[flatandy]

But you only have so much energy to put into it, so you're going to put the energy into your own kid's education.

[perrykneeham]

Nah, that's just silly. It's a fabrication, a confection, an excuse.

[unclejunior]

On the same subject ,this thread reminds me, allow me to share …
About 10 years ago I was taking my daughter & her teammates to an athletics meet at Windsor Slough & Eton on a Sunday afternoon.
As we walked in I couldn’t help but notice the commemorative plate recording the fact the beautiful track and Olympic lake behind had been bought & paid for by Lottery funding….
Along the back-straight of the track is Eton school & late in the evening I spoke to a master at the school who asked if I would like a tour of the grounds. I gratefully accepted and walked around the grounds with my guide and we discussed the fact that Eton was probably the least deserving school in the country to benefit from such public largesse .
He assured me it had be going on years before the lottery & told me about Tonbridge school in Kent where he had worked at previously……
I subsequently visited their running track a couple of years later and also toured the school which is breathtakingly beautiful and equipped with walk to wall state of the art equipment…
Anyway … I agree with the sentiment of the opening post 👍

[Repat Van]

Jun 25, 2022 16:59:13 GMT perrykneeham said:

I've just been listening to Martin "the money saving expert" Lewis on BBC Radio 4's Political Thinking. What a self-serving, pushy cunt he is.

The privately-educated multi-millionaire played just about every card imaginable during the course of the interview but he basically came across as a massive ego on the make.

He's one of those people who's always saying how he was marginalised and not given a fair shout and yet, here he is. The problem is that people probably just didn't like him and didn't trust him. He seems very weasely

Also, he claims to walk 20,000 steps every day at least and average 25,000 over a week. That seems very unlikely.

I dunno about his persona but his website and some of his advice helped me many times over years ago.

Never heard him talk about being marginalised however. But I have only ever listened to him re: financial tips.

[perrykneeham]

I'm sure his tips site and advice are helpful and sound. I just thought he clearly comes across as a bit of a dick.

He got a bit worked up during the interview and I thought is was rather performative. In fact, the whole interview seemed staged. He was speaking with Nick Robinson, so there was a bit of 4x2 team talking going on and the subject of his latest application to join the House of Lords (denied) came up. Who applies to join the HofL? I didn't even know that was a thing.

[perrykneeham]

He came across as very, very sharp-elbowed.

[mids]

The BBC's main Glastonbury guy doesn't know how to pronounce Frome.