US 2024 Election

[rick49]

Apr 26, 2023 20:40:54 GMT flatandy said:

"the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom at The Heritage Foundation". This is some kind of gag. In fact both that name and the entire article look like they were written by ChatGPT

coming from someone who thinks kamala harris is a radical right-winger.

[flatandy]

Not radical. Very much mainstream.

[ootlg]

Apr 26, 2023 20:51:38 GMT perrykneeham said:

Anglophone. That's important.

Anyway, I was about to say that there seems to be a crisis in the anglosphere. There's a loss of confidence and it feels a bit like the last days of Pompei. I've probably said this before but the confident assumption of moral, democratic, military and cultural supremacy is failing and people don't know what to do about it. It seems like our degeneracy is manifested in gender politics and vicarious victimhood.

Pandora's Box = The Internet. Whether it'll be a good thing in the long run or not is anyone's guess, but we're in for years of turmoil. The change human society is undergoing is unfathomable as the variation in human character and national characteristic is vast, but one thing's certain and that is that we're never going to return to those fictitious halcyon days of law and order where injustice was the real order of the day.

[mids]

Apr 26, 2023 20:51:38 GMT perrykneeham said:

Anglophone. That's important.

Anyway, I was about to say that there seems to be a crisis in the anglosphere. There's a loss of confidence and it feels a bit like the last days of Pompei. I've probably said this before but the confident assumption of moral, democratic, military and cultural supremacy is failing and people don't know what to do about it. It seems like our degeneracy is manifested in gender politics and vicarious victimhood.

This is correct. There seems to be a feeling among some that decline is inevitable and we should just accept it, coupled with others who are actively pursuing decline. The latter I think because they think we deserve it but also because they imagine they'll be implementing something else in its place.

[mids]

Although I don't think it's just confined to the Anglosphere but to the West generally. It's probably stronger in the Anglosphere.

[ootlg]

Apr 27, 2023 7:07:43 GMT mids said:

Apr 26, 2023 20:51:38 GMT perrykneeham said:

Anglophone. That's important.

Anyway, I was about to say that there seems to be a crisis in the anglosphere. There's a loss of confidence and it feels a bit like the last days of Pompei. I've probably said this before but the confident assumption of moral, democratic, military and cultural supremacy is failing and people don't know what to do about it. It seems like our degeneracy is manifested in gender politics and vicarious victimhood.

This is correct. There seems to be a feeling among some that decline is inevitable and we should just accept it, coupled with others who are actively pursuing decline. The latter I think because they think we deserve it but also because they imagine they'll be implementing something else in its place.

Decline's a debateable word. I'd suggest change - and it is inevitable. The sooner we get used to it and adjust the better. Dreams of going back to the good old days are futile.

[perrykneeham]

Change is happening too, of course, but you see a decline in the US in terms of the topics I mentioned. Their prestige has certainly declined as the "leader of the free West", as indeed has "the free West".

Completely unscientifically, I date this to Bill Clinton's cigar-abuse hearing. I think the whole World was watching as he lied about what everyone knew he'd done, which was in itself, creepy and degenerate.

[ootlg]

"...the confident assumption of moral, democratic, military and cultural supremacy..."

This assumption has been nurtured since WW2 by global media self-promotion and an aggressive overseas policy. No-one's buying it any more. Now we're seeing a loss of confidence in the west as the failings of this strategy are laid bare across the internet. With this loss of confidence negative aspects are bound to flourish and we're seeing widespread refusal to adhere to the old system.

[perrykneeham]

Nah, not buying that. US superpower status has been highly successful. It's had reverses for sure, but it worked well and still does.

I think the US has squandered its moral and cultural inheritance. That inheritance derived partly from US democratic confidence, the American dream, liberty and their success in WW2, the first time a country's economy and living standards actually advanced during a major conflict. The cultural capital is interesting because it speaks to a sense of America being the natural inheritor of European culture, which is embraced and advanced with its own style. What do we have to say about modern American culture?

[mids]

I blame Blair.

[perrykneeham]

Blair and Clinton. Fair enough.

[mids]

And the BBC, natch.

[flatandy]

The US never had a real cultural or moral high ground. You’d be hard pressed to find a time when people didn’t claim it was in moral decline.

As for US culture being dominant, that’s really only happened at all in the last 25 years. Before that, every country had viable TV and film industries. They may have produced sh*t but they were local sh*t. The massive export of piss-poor US content really only happened with t’internet.

I blame Thatcher and Reagan, myself (and the Heritage institute) for what anglophone decline there’s been.

[ootlg]

Apr 27, 2023 8:39:28 GMT perrykneeham said:

Nah, not buying that. US superpower status has been highly successful. It's had reverses for sure, but it worked well and still does.

I think the US has squandered its moral and cultural inheritance. That inheritance derived partly from US democratic confidence, the American dream, liberty and their success in WW2, the first time a country's economy and living standards actually advanced during a major conflict. The cultural capital is interesting because it speaks to a sense of America being the natural inheritor of European culture, which is embraced and advanced with its own style. What do we have to say about modern American culture?

Not buying what? You've more or less reiterated what I said, apart from adding that it still works well - which weirdly is in contrast to your original post.

[perrykneeham]

Break it down into bits.

[flatandy]

Anyway, back to my original point where I mentioned "Anglophone". The point was that the country that was below the US was, of course, the UK, in his "economic freedom" index. Which suggests that haven't culture war right-wingers hell bent on destruction of the modern order is not, in fact, a recipe for even what his ridiculous foundation is in favour of.

Also, of course, "economic freedom" and actual growth are not, inherently, desirable goals if they don't produce improved standards of living. Where the US has falling living standards it's because we are too "freedom" oriented, we don't have universal healthcare, we don't have enough days off work, we spend too much time in cars, too many people are getting shot young, too many people are dodging covid vaccines - the last three causing an actual fall in life expectancy and an increasing discrepancy with more adult countries; and the last three being much more pronounced in states run by (and more full of) the people the Heritage Foundation supports.

[mids]

So you're that saying that America's just managing to hang on thanks to the Margaret Thatcher Freedom and Greatness Centre?

[perrykneeham]

If ever there was an opportunity missed, it was to breed from Margaret and Ronnie.

[mids]

A race of Super Beings.

[flatandy]

I'm sure you could create some AI porn of that for yourself, Mids. Just don't share it with the rest of us.