Council 'Shut That Door' of a normal life for a ch

[vania]

I think she was referring to the bit about the periods...

[Deleted]

I think the main issue is the kids, and what is best for them, their own mother (drug addict) obviously hasn't been a "mother" hence the adoption,so the grandparents point of they "need" a mother figure, is bollocks.

[Victor Meldrew]

their own mother (drug addict) obviously hasn't been a "mother" hence the adoption,so the grandparents point of they "need" a mother figure, is bollocks.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Are you saying that just because their natural mother hasn't shown any maternal instincts towards her kids, because she's mainly been high on drugs, that the children have forfeited any right to a replacement mother figure?

It should be the job of social services to fix a problem. In this case, the kids haven't had the benefit of a true mother figure in their lives, so I'd suggest they are in more need of that opportunity now than ever.

[dwad]

If you were the gay couple, wouldn't you just give them back after all this?

[aleefx]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562313/'Fear-of-prejudice'-let-gay-carers-abuse-boys.html

Grrrr!

[Deleted]

the children have forfeited any right to a replacement mother figure?

No, saying they probably haven't had all the proper loving and caring from their own mother, so, being brought up by a loving and caring gay couple would be just as good as any other couple wanting to adopt.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Jan 29, 2009 11:53:43 GMT dwad said:

Jan 29, 2009 11:51:11 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

What do dads of little girls whose mums died or left do?

They mourn, call it a tragedy and get on with life. Are you saying gay adoption is a tragedy?

Nah I'm saying what do they do when their little girls start bleeding? Tell them they know what's happening but they can't explain cos that's mummy's job?

[dwad]

No, I'm taking the piss a bit VHW, but pointing out that your drawn equivalents here are both tragedies that leave a child without a mother but gay adoption is a seen as a valid choice not to give the child a mother.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

I think two people raising a child is better because it's a bit easier to split the considerable workload between two people. It would be equally a tragedy if one of the gay guys died leaving the child bereaved, surely?

I am not convinced that a woman MUST be in place in a family home otherwise the child will be irreparably damaged for life. Nor do I think it holds true regarding men.

[dwad]

Jan 29, 2009 13:01:29 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

I am not convinced that a woman MUST be in place in a family home otherwise the child will be irreparably damaged for life. Nor do I think it holds true regarding men.

No, I think a lot of single parents do a stand up job but I do think it's fair to say that most people feel it is optimum for kids to have a mother and father (as opposed to two of each) and at very best we simply don't know the effects of not having one or the other.

[evenstar]

This is an area I have had previoius experience in, there really will be more to it than some 'PC quota', 90% of the time the children will stay with a family if member if possible e unless the family member is not suitable, the age of the grandparents is not an issue, there are thousands of kids in Scotland currently in care of grandparents older than those in the story.
I suspect if the new carers were just your average straight couple this story would have never made the news.

[evenstar]

I should also make the point that the final decision is not made by social workers, in Scotland the child will be under a care order, all decision and recommendations go to the 'Children's panel', the decision is then made by the three panel members, the children's panel tends to be made up of middle aged & retired Church or Scotland types, all volunteers , not young screaming liberals

[mids]

It's weird how family courts are normally so anti-male but in this case not. Odd...

Anyway, it about time thses family courts stopped being so urtterly secretive.

[ricklinc]

But why? Why allow gay couples to adopt if there are straight ones up for the job? Why take a chance that the kid might get problems that wouldn't occur with a straight couple raising them? There's no need to do it so why do it at all?

It's got to be purely because gay activists have pushed for this right and lefty lib dimwits are willing to risk any possible consequences to the children in the name of diversity. Sort of sums them up really.

[VikingHumpingWitch]

Jan 29, 2009 13:06:41 GMT dwad said:

at very best we simply don't know the effects of not having one or the other.

Um. I think there have been children raised over the long history of human population of the planet who were lacking one or the other. I had to suffer the crippling life-ruining effects of a father I saw only at weekends (as did my friend whose dad lived at home but commuted two hours each way into London) - we lived!

We may not know the impact of having two same sex parents. But you still get the two people to share the work, two incomes and all the other duality benefits so I would need some solid evidence that children specifically need parents of both genders before attaching any weight to that idea whatsoever.

[evenstar]

Most of the information is freely available to journalists, the only rule is that the child's identity should be protected. They choose how to report it.

I once had to serve on a panel were a child was being removed from from it's home and it was all recorded for radio, we cannot object.

[Deleted]

Lol@ ricklinc...there is no such thing as a perfect parent, or child for that matter, and no amount of money can buy one.

[dwad]

Jan 29, 2009 13:16:59 GMT VikingHumpingWitch said:

Jan 29, 2009 13:06:41 GMT dwad said:

at very best we simply don't know the effects of not having one or the other.

We may not know the impact of having two same sex parents. But you still get the two people to share the work, two incomes and all the other duality benefits so I would need some solid evidence that children specifically need parents of both genders before attaching any weight to that idea whatsoever.

But can you not see that for some reason solid evidence is not deemed necessary in the other direction. We are making a total fundamental change to the structure of families going against all experience and without evidence of whether it is a good thing or not. It's like taking a completely untested drug that may be worse even though you know aspirin will do a good job, just to give that pharma company a boost.

[mids]

By the way, what little research into the outomes for children of having two gay parents was done on lezza couples in Bristol and they found that at the age the kids were studied, there were no serious adverse effects. All they found was that they tended to get teased a bit more at school. Of course that could change as they get older plus it was as you'd expect quite a small sample and also gayers that adopt tend to be relatively well off, middle class and very committed.

[dwad]

Jan 29, 2009 13:21:52 GMT @joyce said:

Lol@ ricklinc...there is no such thing as a perfect parent, or child for that matter, and no amount of money can buy one.

I think there is some confusion over two separate things here. Obviously nobody is advocating that it's better to have an abusive mother and father than two loving fathers, but all else being equal, most feel that at very best it is a total unknown risk to have two fathers over a mother and father.