radge
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Post by radge on Jan 20, 2009 9:56:29 GMT
Avi: Whatever religion or the name of G-d you chose, (and I include Atheists too as they think that each peson is his own G-d), One thing we can agree upon and that is: There is a cause and there is a reason for us being.
I used to say i was agnostic, the older i get the more i think i am a through and through atheist. I dont believe myself to be a god for myself...if you get me...but i do believe the one person i can rely on for anything is me. Thats not a god thing thats a practical thing. You also mentioned that you think we can all agree that there is a cause and a reason for us being...no i dont i think our lives are as pointless to the universe as anything else. I do believe..sh*t happens for no particular reason, we as humans want to put a reason to everything, because thats all we know but I dont hold on to that idea in the wider scheme of things. I believe we just are, and our existence is inconsequential to anything outside of our immediate lives.
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ricklinc
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Nostalgia
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Post by ricklinc on Jan 20, 2009 10:02:25 GMT
Apparently it all gets explained to you after you die. I'm in no rush.
I am a bit curious as to where the humanists are going with their "look at me" advert. Religions draw attention with miracles, the godless heathens book advertising space but the aim is the same. They want followers. But where are they going?
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avieder
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never lie
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Post by avieder on Jan 20, 2009 10:38:16 GMT
O.K. Lets take it step by step.
Now, follow me:
"What rage? Other than some scrote over in Dubai who wound me right up yesterday I'm a pretty chilled person." - Are you sure Viking Humping Witch? your nick suggests something different." And I wouldn't call that rage either, more intense irritation. It's over now though." Categorizing your feelings must be according to some scale. Probably formed in your childhood by the environment you grew in. That is, by other people. Those other people formed their standards in a similar way - so it all boils down to principals being set at some stage of history. I trust your intelligence to continue that extrapolation to come to Mt Sinai
"Most of what I think is right and wrong I get from the general human values commonly accepted across the globe."
Leave the Globe alone Witch, You know that is absurd. Just pay a visit to a suburb in your own town, you know - were the immigrants live.... Take your Viking with you if you care to check the moral standards there.
" You don't poo on people" - No you don't. but can you mistreat them, like "forced marriage" or use as live shields? - Well, across the world things maybe a little different.
," you try and help them wherever possible. That pretty much covers most things." - If that is what your G-d tells you, that's fine. Do all people deserve that treatment? where are the boundaries?
" Some things (like lying being a particularly bad idea) I get from my parents." - Did they, by any chance, get that from Sinai? " Individual situations I form my own judgements on based on as much of the facts as I know. Sometimes I can't decide what is right and wrong." - Yes that is what I mean "your own judgment". It is the same with people who believe only they have a scale to go by. Not always keeping to it but it is there all the same.
"I do not see myself as a god. The idea is hilarious to me." - So, do you reject G-d?
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VikingHumpingWitch
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"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 20, 2009 10:52:42 GMT
O.K. Lets take it step by step.
Now, follow me:"What rage? Other than some scrote over in Dubai who wound me right up yesterday I'm a pretty chilled person." - Are you sure Viking Humping Witch? your nick suggests something different." And I wouldn't call that rage either, more intense irritation. It's over now though." Categorizing your feelings must be according to some scale. Probably formed in your childhood by the environment you grew in. That is, by other people. Those other people formed their standards in a similar way - so it all boils down to principals being set at some stage of history. I trust your intelligence to continue that extrapolation to come to Mt Sinai "Most of what I think is right and wrong I get from the general human values commonly accepted across the globe." Leave the Globe alone Witch, You know that is absurd. Just pay a visit to a suburb in your own town, you know - were the immigrants live.... Take your Viking with you if you care to check the moral standards there." You don't poo on people" - No you don't. but can you mistreat them, like "forced marriage" or use as live shields? - Well, across the world things maybe a little different.," you try and help them wherever possible. That pretty much covers most things." - If that is what your G-d tells you, that's fine. Do all people deserve that treatment? where are the boundaries? " Some things (like lying being a particularly bad idea) I get from my parents." - Did they, by any chance, get that from Sinai? " Individual situations I form my own judgements on based on as much of the facts as I know. Sometimes I can't decide what is right and wrong." - Yes that is what I mean "your own judgment". It is the same with people who believe only they have a scale to go by. Not always keeping to it but it is there all the same."I do not see myself as a god. The idea is hilarious to me." This is so full of fail it's going to be a while to go through it all. 1. My nickname means I like fcuking Scandinavian types. Nothing to do with rage. 2. Societal values probably were formed over at least a period of history. One that predates by Sinai by many millennia. 3. I live in a suburb where immigrants live. Have no idea what you're talking about. We aren't killing each other, unlike you godly folks out in the Middle East, at any rate. 4. I think using people as human shields or forcing them into marriage against their will are wrong things. I didn't say nobody ever does wrong things, I just said that I don't need a god to tell me that these two examples are Wrong Things. 5. "My god" does not exist, therefore is incapable of telling me things. If I start hearing voices, I will attribute it to me going mad, not to god. All people should be treated equally unless they prove themselves undeserving of the basic respect we should pay to each other. There are no boundaries to that. 6. My mother is big into Not Lying. Very much doubt she got that from Sinai, I think it's a personal experience thing - she spent a lot of time lying to her parents, regrets that, and wanted to make sure her child could and would be honest with her. She knows that lying makes you sad in the long run. 7. "It is the same with people who believe only they have a scale to go by" - cannot respond to this as I do not have any clue what you are talking about. 8. I do not reject God. You may as well ask if I reject unicorns, ghosts, WMDs in Iraq and the tooth fairy. I don't believe any of them exist, you cannot reject something that isn't there. |
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radge
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Post by radge on Jan 20, 2009 10:56:03 GMT
Avi whats your point? You trying to convince us we believe in a god, or we believe in something more than us? Your reply to VHW, is prattling on about nothing really, nothing that makes any diff to the fact both of us Just live life die and once were gone apart from a few people close to us, no-one will careless and the world will continue.
if we are so important and special (ie; the concept of being here for a purpose) then if the human race was wiped out would the world stop turning? It turned before we arrived and it will turn after we're gone. To me thats proof enough that we mean jack sh*t, rather than being here for a reason.
The concept of god, is just that to me. A concept.
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 20, 2009 11:36:49 GMT
First you say one thing, then you contradict yourself.
No, it just has to be the 7th day. Tarrant
The 7th day isn't the issue. Tarrant
Then, you abandon the religious principle altogether.
It's common sense really. The human body needs periods of rest. Tarrant
If it's not a commandment, in your eccentric interpretation, then that leaves us with three religious injunctions.
1) Worship only the tribal god of Israel
2) Don't worship any images of supernatural beings
3) Don't insult or tell lies about the tribal god of Israel
Come on. Tell us these three injunctions are really just common sense and that there's nothing religious about the ten commandments at all. Seven down, three to go.
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 20, 2009 12:03:26 GMT
There's an interesting article on the 10 commandments in this month's Prozzie. mids
Thanks. David Bodanis has a vivid imagination. Anyway, by turning the 'commandments' into a political manifesto, he gets rid of the religious element.
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Post by tarrant on Jan 20, 2009 13:09:31 GMT
Thank you Bertrus.
You seem more concerned with discussing my semantics and wording than the issues.
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Post by cobblers on Jan 20, 2009 13:41:45 GMT
You are right, of course, It is not done because of health reasons, just as not eating pigs or washing hands before a meal. If it was than it would have been a "Noachite" law - a law for all humans (like not eating a part of a living animal while it is alive) Avi. I avoided getting involved in references to circumcision as I felt it might divert this discussion. However, your claims of health benefits are wrong. These claims have emerged mostly in recent years, sponsored by Jews and Muslims alike. The claims are based upon a study in Africa which claims to have found that circumcised men were less likely to get HIV. The realities are these. 1. The foreskin is a necessary part of male anatomy. It maintains the sensitivity of the sex organ, aids movement during copulation and acts as a protective barrier for the urethra. 2. When the foreskin is intact, there is secreted a waxy mucus which acts as a lubricant and as an antiseptic. This substance is called smegma. It is possible for micro-organisms to lodge under the foreskin but they will be destroyed very quickly by the antiseptic action of the smegma. Removal of the foreskin causes the glands which secrete smegma to dry up. The study examined a number of men in central Africa where promiscuity is rife as is HIV. It did find that there appeared to be less instance of HIV among circumcised men. What the report failed to mention was that the circumcised men were, for the most part, Muslims while the uncircumcised men were animists. There is a clear difference in the lifestyles of these two groups which makes comparisons meaningless. You may practice the barbaric tradition if that is your wish. But to attempt to claim the backing of science is fraudulent. Tarrant's one-man mission to end the barbaric practice of circumcision cracks me up! Listen Tarrant, I've had it done (when I was 7). It didn't particularly hurt and my sex life is fine. I don't miss having a foreskin or (allegedly) antiseptic smegma and I don;t feel vulnerable that y urethra is exposed. If I had a son I wouldn't have strong feelings either way over whether it should or shouldn't be done So why are YOU so het up about it? |
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Post by tarrant on Jan 20, 2009 14:14:42 GMT
Tarrant's one-man mission to end the barbaric practice of circumcision cracks me up! So why are YOU so het up about it? Was wondering where your vitriol was lately. If you had bothered to read the thread you would realise that the issue here is the claims of health benefits from circumcision. How you choose to mutilate your sex organs is your own affair. But I doubt many of us want to hear about your disgusting sexual perversions. You seem to be on a one man mission to attack me on these pages. That's fine. I have never particularly worried about the opinions of a Nazi, even less such a half backed on such as yourself. Though I am curious why Nazis are so prone to this strange sexual exhibitionism. Uncle Goering was one of your kind wasn't he? |
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Post by cobblers on Jan 20, 2009 14:45:39 GMT
My vitriol! That's a good one. I was actually just gently mocking you this time.
'Mutilate' my sexual organs?
My 'disgusting sexual perversions'?
I'm sure there are health benefits from circumcision - one less mucous membrane to worry about after all. Oh and a friend of mine has ripped his foreskin several times shagging - nothing like a copious flow of blood to transmit diseases. I thinkn your theory - that the lower HIV transmission rates among circumcised men is because they are muslim - is just speculation on your part.
You are not only insane, you are also one of the biggest wallies I've ever come across.
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Post by Libby on Jan 20, 2009 14:50:23 GMT
An interesting change of subject through this thread, from bus drivers to circumcision to sexual perversion?!
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Post by Beachcomber on Jan 20, 2009 14:51:10 GMT
I remember an article several years ago (No Link) saying that circumcision in men led to a reduction in cervical cancer in their partners.
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Post by Libby on Jan 20, 2009 14:56:20 GMT
We will have to see if we can find that, sounds interesting! I haven't heard that theory.
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VikingHumpingWitch
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"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
Posts: 8,018
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 20, 2009 15:00:00 GMT
I've heard that. So does condom use. Again though, I think good hygiene sorts that.
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Post by Libby on Jan 20, 2009 15:14:37 GMT
Perhaps that's it in a nutshell (forgive the pun!), good hygience! Being hygeinic will obviously benefit both parties!
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VikingHumpingWitch
New Member
"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
Posts: 8,018
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 20, 2009 15:19:34 GMT
Well exactly. Circumcision may have been a great idea at the time what with there not being soap and sponges readily available. No excuse for a dirty cöck now though, and no reason to cut down someone's girth and sensitivity.
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ricklinc
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Nostalgia
Posts: 2,597
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Post by ricklinc on Jan 20, 2009 15:25:51 GMT
Benefits of circumcision? We know a bloke who had us all in complete hysteria with what happened to him. It was a long story and we got it day by day but the gist is that he had trouble peeing, had a camera poked up the eye which found a scar, got it excised and has to self-catheter every three days. Circumcision as a baby didn't help him at all.
It is probably the saga that has caused me the most amusement that anything ever has. Especially when he described his inability through nerves to get more than six inches of the catheter inserted and I said, " Six inches. If you got six inches shoved up yourself you'd have at least four inches sticking out of your arse! " Nervous laughter is the best kind.
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 20, 2009 15:59:56 GMT
You seem more concerned with discussing my semantics and wording than the issues. Tarrant
If you concede that there's nothing religious about the ten 'commandments', you concede my point. The principles of morality as a survival mechanism long precede any religious code. Today, useful moral princiiples make religious taboos redundant.
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Post by Libby on Jan 20, 2009 16:04:01 GMT
Benefits of circumcision? We know a bloke who had us all in complete hysteria with what happened to him. It was a long story and we got it day by day but the gist is that he had trouble peeing, had a camera poked up the eye which found a scar, got it excised and has to self-catheter every three days. Circumcision as a baby didn't help him at all. It is probably the saga that has caused me the most amusement that anything ever has. Especially when he described his inability through nerves to get more than six inches of the catheter inserted and I said, " Six inches. If you got six inches shoved up yourself you'd have at least four inches sticking out of your arse! " Nervous laughter is the best kind. OUCH!  |
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