radge
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Post by radge on Jan 19, 2009 19:41:11 GMT
Bingo. the way my personal life goes i am all that, and thats all you need, belief in yourself  |
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avieder
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never lie
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Post by avieder on Jan 19, 2009 19:50:15 GMT
im just saying what has circumcision got to do with health? feck all other than those who think its a good idea come up with some clap trap to promote it in a favourable context. Sometimes for medical puropses circumcision is better for the individual on a comfort level, but health has nothing to do with it. I was referring to somebody who said above something about a waste of foreskins. You are right, of course, It is not done because of health reasons, just as not eating pigs or washing hands before a meal. If it was than it would have been a "Noachite" law - a law for all humans (like not eating a part of a living animal while it is alive) |
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avieder
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Post by avieder on Jan 19, 2009 19:53:41 GMT
Bingo. the way my personal life goes i am all that, and thats all you need, belief in yourself Robinson Crusoe, I presume.... |
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radge
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Post by radge on Jan 19, 2009 19:57:26 GMT
Buddhist heh heh. or a really supportive mum |
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Post by tarrant on Jan 19, 2009 20:32:58 GMT
You are right, of course, It is not done because of health reasons, just as not eating pigs or washing hands before a meal. If it was than it would have been a "Noachite" law - a law for all humans (like not eating a part of a living animal while it is alive) Avi. I avoided getting involved in references to circumcision as I felt it might divert this discussion. However, your claims of health benefits are wrong. These claims have emerged mostly in recent years, sponsored by Jews and Muslims alike. The claims are based upon a study in Africa which claims to have found that circumcised men were less likely to get HIV. The realities are these. 1. The foreskin is a necessary part of male anatomy. It maintains the sensitivity of the sex organ, aids movement during copulation and acts as a protective barrier for the urethra. 2. When the foreskin is intact, there is secreted a waxy mucus which acts as a lubricant and as an antiseptic. This substance is called smegma. It is possible for micro-organisms to lodge under the foreskin but they will be destroyed very quickly by the antiseptic action of the smegma. Removal of the foreskin causes the glands which secrete smegma to dry up. The study examined a number of men in central Africa where promiscuity is rife as is HIV. It did find that there appeared to be less instance of HIV among circumcised men. What the report failed to mention was that the circumcised men were, for the most part, Muslims while the uncircumcised men were animists. There is a clear difference in the lifestyles of these two groups which makes comparisons meaningless. You may practice the barbaric tradition if that is your wish. But to attempt to claim the backing of science is fraudulent. |
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Post by Libby on Jan 19, 2009 20:58:04 GMT
I can confirm being in the medical profession that circumcision is best not done. The foreskin is there for a reason, as mentioned above. However circumcision is performed when there are valid health reasons.
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 19, 2009 21:03:31 GMT
We must obey the 10 Commandments, as interperted by Jesus. Tarrant Commandments 5-10 are, in essence, common sense principles that enabled civilized life to develop, bearing in mind that they have to be adapted to the changing circumstances of human existence. The first four are religious taboos and are pointless. A relationship has two sides, even if one of the partners in an imaginary being. The god of the Old Testament is a homocidal maniac and no one should have anything to do with him. The moral teaching of Jesus is of interest to all of us but he is of minor importance as a guru today. I wouldn't wear the Atheists for Jesus tee-shirt but Richard Dawkins has been photographed in one. There are lots of gospels, including the four canonical ones, and the magic and the mythology in them is of no relevance to us today. |
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avieder
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Post by avieder on Jan 19, 2009 21:09:39 GMT
Actually what I said was that the health reasons are not the reasons that we preform the Brith.
(Just as pigs etc.)
Some said that pigs are unhealthy in the Middle East (because of the heat?) So, are they kosher in Europe? - no!
Enjoy your foreskins, guys. "no skin off my back"...
As I said above some laws can be explained, others are accepted as such (law).
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Post by tarrant on Jan 19, 2009 21:52:49 GMT
The first four are religious taboos and are pointless. 1 Don't worship any other god. There is only one set of laws. Producing another god with another set of laws is not acceptable 2 Don't worship any idol. No material object is worthy of worship. 3 Don't abuse the name of God. Do not claim that God has permitted you to break a commandment. Likewise, falsely claiming to have a message from God is a blashphamy. 4 Rest one day in seven Don't sound very pointless to me. Actually what I said was that the health reasons are not the reasons that we preform the Brith. Cirumcision is very healthy (with medical proof) I was referring to somebody who said above something about a waste of foreskins. You are right, of course, It is not done because of health reasons, I accept your statement Avi. Personal observance is a matter for yourselves. |
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 19, 2009 23:37:05 GMT
1 Don't worship any other god. There is only one set of laws. Producing another god with another set of laws is not acceptable
Another god than Yahweh. this is religious imperialism. The human race has produced millions of gods and no surefire method of picking one over all the rest.
2 Don't worship any idol. No material object is worthy of worship.
An idol is a representation of a god. Among the many horrible characteristics of Yahweh is his jealousy of other gods.
3 Don't abuse the name of God. Do not claim that God has permitted you to break a commandment. Likewise, falsely claiming to have a message from God is a blashphamy.
Why not, for heavens sake? And how are we supposed to know if a message from a mythological being is true or not.
4 Rest one day in seven
It's not just any day. It's one specific day, the Sabbath, when work is taboo. Anyway, why not have two days of leisure as many people have? A sensibly planned timetable gives some time off, but not at the whim of some ancient deity.
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Post by tarrant on Jan 19, 2009 23:51:17 GMT
4 Rest one day in sevenIt's not just any day. It's one specific day, the Sabbath, when work is taboo. Anyway, why not have two days of leisure as many people have? A sensibly planned timetable gives some time off, but not at the whim of some ancient deity. No, it just has to be the 7th day. The rest of your responses seem kinda weak. |
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Post by bertrus2 on Jan 20, 2009 0:01:19 GMT
No, it just has to be the 7th day.
If it has to be the 7th day that means it's always the same day whichever religion you adhere to. That is a senseless religious taboo.
The apparent 'weakness' of the remarks on the other senseless taboos is possibly due to your naive religious faith.
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voice
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Post by voice on Jan 20, 2009 3:53:02 GMT
Its far from true that what Abrahan came off the mountain with has become common sence over time, this might have been the case if he was the only one who used the old 'god commanded me from a burning shrub and you now have to do as I say' routeen, but the fact is almost every other belief system has come up with a similar set of tennets of how to live your life as a good person, some use some form of diety or multiple dieties as as excuse but others such as Confushus or Buddha who stressed taking personal responsibility for ones actions and not using a mythical being as either an excuse or as a threat to behove in a decent mannor.
You dont need an immaginarry friend to tell you its alright to be a decent person.
Oh and yes gravity exists in so far as anything actually exists, but I'm sure some might argue cos its a theory it might not and what we actually have is inteligent falling.
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avieder
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Post by avieder on Jan 20, 2009 6:52:11 GMT
Whatever religion or the name of G-d you chose, (and I include Atheists too as they think that each peson is his own G-d), One thing we can agree upon and that is: There is a cause and there is a reason for us being.
The elements that form our body (90% water + the rest of the elements...) have gathered together it this instant of time, on this picsel of the universe for a purpose.
We also have feelings, memory, drives, charchter etc. that are beyond chemistry or electricity and are here for a purpose.
That, in my humble opinion, is what I call Diety (as most do in order to stay sane).
The question remains: "So what?" or "How does this knowledge affect my behavior?" or , rather, "how should it affect?"
For that we have religions. To each people their own religion. No contradiction.
If we take the laws given in Sinai, as an example, they set one set, one whole system of laws and principles of how people should behave, as indeviduals and as soceity. The Hindus have a different one as did the Maya.
In this light we may understand the actions of the busdriver as wanting to protect the "religion" of his people. For that he should be commended and applauded
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Post by tarrant on Jan 20, 2009 8:01:08 GMT
If it has to be the 7th day that means it's always the same day whichever religion you adhere to. That is a senseless religious taboo. . Bertrus, When you offer counters like this I know you're just arguing for the sake of it. That is why I often ignore you. The 7th day isn't the issue. The issue is not working more than 6 days at a time. And especially not causing anyone else to work more than 6 days at a time. You must stop your labours after 6 days. But equally you can stop your labours after 5 days and take a day off. Then work 6 days and take a day off, then 4 and a several days off. The criteria is still fulfilled. It's common sense really. The human body needs periods of rest. but the fact is almost every other belief system has come up with a similar set of tennets of how to live your life as a good person, some use some form of diety or multiple dieties as as excuse but others such as Confushus or Buddha who stressed taking personal responsibility for ones actions and not using a mythical being as either an excuse or as a threat to behove in a decent mannor. . I don't think there is any threat in the Commandments. Don't kill is an instruction. It isn't qualified. It has no threat or prediction of consequences. Jesus did say that most of us will never see the Kingdom. But He described the sort of people who will. The other points you make. That has occured to me as well. I use to ask the question everyone asks, namely, Why do bad things happen to good people? This led me onto the question why would a good person who has never heard such and such be dismissed while a bad person who has not be. It isn't my place to propose an answer. But the god I know is more intelegent than that. The point was made earlier that the commandments are common sense which most people will adopt anyway. Equally, it is common sense not to drive too fast in a built up area, yet without laws governing speed, would you personally always drive at 20MPH? Rules are codified because it means we can all follow the same rules. |
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silkbreeze
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Post by silkbreeze on Jan 20, 2009 8:56:51 GMT
ritual is a part of most people's lives, sometimes these rituals are performed as or in form of a religious act or service, for some it is thanking the sea each time you visit....it is making a connection with the threads of humanity.....
could it be said that a discipline - used in a formal sense or a personal sense - is required for most people in order to rescind what should be free choice of their own for free choice within a certain framework....a bit of everything i suppose....moral maturity of accepting responsibility for your actions
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VikingHumpingWitch
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"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 20, 2009 9:11:46 GMT
Whatever the putative health benefits (and personally I don't think there's much you couldn't sort out with just, you know, washing properly, we have soap and that now), lopping the end off someone's willy reduces girth and Yahweh himself would have a hard time convincing me that this is anything but A Bad Thing.
"I include Atheists too as they think that each peson is his own G-d"
You still haven't got it. I don't believe I am my own God. I don't believe there are ANY gods. I am just a person, I will be on this planet for however long and then I'll die, and it'll be like it was before I was born. And that's it for all of us.
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avieder
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Post by avieder on Jan 20, 2009 9:32:55 GMT
Whatever the putative health benefits (and personally I don't think there's much you couldn't sort out with just, you know, washing properly, we have soap and that now), lopping the end off someone's willy reduces girth and Yahweh himself would have a hard time convincing me that this is anything but A Bad Thing. "I include Atheists too as they think that each peson is his own G-d" You still haven't got it. I don't believe I am my own God. I don't believe there are ANY gods. I am just a person, I will be on this planet for however long and then I'll die, and it'll be like it was before I was born. And that's it for all of us. So, what is the purpose of your being? What is this rage you feel - Is it just some bio-electric circuit in your head?. When you say " I am just a person", who tells that person how to behave, what to feel, ? What is right or wrong? - If it is ALL just you than that is my meaning that you see yourself as your own G-d. Getit? |
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VikingHumpingWitch
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"My philosophy in life is keep dry and keep away from children. I got it from a matchbox."
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Post by VikingHumpingWitch on Jan 20, 2009 9:37:33 GMT
What rage? Other than some scrote over in Dubai who wound me right up yesterday I'm a pretty chilled person. And I wouldn't call that rage either, more intense irritation. It's over now though.
Most of what I think is right and wrong I get from the general human values commonly accepted across the globe. You don't crap on people, you try and help them wherever possible. That pretty much covers most things. Some things (like lying being a particularly bad idea) I get from my parents. Individual situations I form my own judgements on based on as much of the facts as I know. Sometimes I can't decide what is right and wrong.
I do not see myself as a god. The idea is hilarious to me.
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mids
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Post by mids on Jan 20, 2009 9:39:07 GMT
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