Coup in Turkey?

[rick49]

Oct 18, 2019 13:19:10 GMT whitewine said:

What you need to remember, it was the republicans ( Bush and B-liar)) who invaded Iraq in the first place, you are right, it should never have happened .

Yup.. Hindsight is always perfect 20/20 vision.

[voice]

Well actually, many of us at time said it was massive mistake for Bush to invade Iraq, especially with no real post plan, but the right shouted all those voices down as either Anti American or pro terrorism, Based on the lie Saddam was involved in the WTC attacks, despite no evidence at all that was true. You lot bought that lie at the time remember Rick, but then you lot buy what ever your present leader tells you to think, they rely on you accepting the latest lie they tell, and you oblige them.

[perrykneeham]

"many of us at time said it was massive mistake for Bush to invade Iraq, especially with no real post plan, but the right shouted all those voices down as either"


Yeah, right. Bit of overreach there.

[voice]

Well not really, but I suspect it suits you to now want everyone to believe that, it's never easy (especially for someone like you ) to realize just how wrong you were.

[whitewine]

Voice is spot on, we did say it was all lies and it would be a huge mistake, and I said on many occasion how Iraq would end up being a hot spot for terrorists, and I was right.

[perrykneeham]

Link? Especially to the bit about no after plan.

[perrykneeham]

Oct 18, 2019 16:14:10 GMT voice said:

Well not really, but I suspect it suits you to now want everyone to believe that, it's never easy (especially for someone like you ) to realize just how wrong you were.

I wasn't wrong.

[mids]

I think Turkey should be given immediate membership of the EU as our replacement.

[perrykneeham]

It would be quite amusing to re-visit the thread about Operation Iraqi Freedom. I can't remember what it was called.

[whitewine]

Operation Iraq Freedom, really, is that why Iraq didn't exist for four years or so, and became the ISIS Islamic state, the second world war only lasted five years, good grief.

[flatandy]

If I remember right, I was in favour of intervention for humanitarian reason, but absolutely livid about the bullshit explanations about terrorism and WMDs and the comically bad dossiers and the ridiculously circumstantial evidence that Colin Powell presented. I may have been wrong about the first part, but I still believe that I was only wrong because the focus was on regime change, and on finding WMD and terrorism to prove that it wasn't based on a lie. If the goal of regime change had been humanitarian, I believe that almost all the post-invasion behaviour would have been different and the outcomes would have been massively different.

[perrykneeham]

Dunno. For me, I think it was a boil that needed lancing. The failure to plan for after the campaign is a bit of a red herring: in practice, they probably made some reasonable assumptions about the economic strength of Iraq and their ability to keep their sh*t together if everything was going well. Then they sent the old regime and the army home, with no jobs, no status, no money but they did keep their weaponry .....

[wetkingcanute]

I think the Kurds should have their Whey.

[voice]

It was the excuses used to justify invading Iraq that was the bullshit and why so many of us opposed it.

[perrykneeham]

Not because of the lack of an after-plan then?

[flatandy]

The lack of an after-plan was a consequence of both the motivations and excuses for the war. It's all related.

[perrykneeham]

That's a valid opinion, but I think they just misjudged it.

[rick49]

Oct 18, 2019 20:52:31 GMT flatandy said:

The lack of an after-plan was a consequence of both the motivations and excuses for the war. It's all related.

I don't recall there being an after-plan for WWI or WWII. The only plan was to win. They didn't worry about the after until it was over. When it was over, then they stood back and said, hmmm, we have a mess here.

[rick49]

Oct 18, 2019 16:06:25 GMT voice said:

Well actually, many of us at time said it was massive mistake for Bush to invade Iraq, especially with no real post plan, but the right shouted all those voices down as either Anti American or pro terrorism, Based on the lie Saddam was involved in the WTC attacks, despite no evidence at all that was true. You lot bought that lie at the time remember Rick, but then you lot buy what ever your present leader tells you to think, they rely on you accepting the latest lie they tell, and you oblige them.

Shaddup.

[rick49]

Oct 18, 2019 16:38:57 GMT perrykneeham said:

Link? Especially to the bit about no after plan.

What he said.