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Post by Repat Van on Jul 8, 2024 9:14:52 GMT
I see that Labour are abandoning the Green Belt, or rather changing the meaning of "green". We have a dropping birth rate and yet our population is increasing. We don't- can't - look after the people we have, so why the f**k are we importing more? Also, who decided that everyone was entitled to their own house or flat? Live with your families and/or don't start your own until you can look after them. LOL! Imagine expecting adults to live with their parents/siblings their entire lives (assuming they remain single / do not have children). Or expecting people never to leave their home towns in search of work. Or expecting couples to never separate etc. As for importing people - it seems that they view the falling / low birth rate as an issue so want to import young(ish) adults to address. Personally it seems like a Ponzi scheme to me but it doesn’t seem inconsistent for those who worry our birth rate is too low to want to use immigration as solution (whether temporary or not). |
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Post by perrykneeham on Jul 8, 2024 9:41:54 GMT
Who said "whole lives"? You don't ever seem to be able to cope with an argument without inventing a different one.
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Post by perrykneeham on Jul 8, 2024 9:43:25 GMT
Van - Oxfordshire has a lot of countryside in it although, as of last Friday morning, you’ll not find one Tory MP in the whole of the county - the first time in history that this has happened. Sounds like a great place to live! There you go, Mogg. Meet the sort of person you'll have as a neighbour. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 8, 2024 9:58:14 GMT
Who said "whole lives"? You don't ever seem to be able to cope with an argument without inventing a different one. Read what I wrote again. The whole paragraph. You can do it! Here it is again: “Imagine expecting adults to live with their parents/siblings their entire lives (assuming they remain single / do not have children). Or expecting people never to leave their home towns in search of work. Or expecting couples to never separate etc.” And you suggested people living with their families as a solution to the housing crisis. I pointed out the flaw in your argument. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Jul 8, 2024 10:09:31 GMT
Yeah, so where did I say "whole lives" under ant of those conditions?
I think you need to read what I wrote, not what you hoped I wrote.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 8, 2024 10:12:58 GMT
Sounds like a great place to live! There you go, Mogg. Meet the sort of person you'll have as a neighbour. I would never live outside a major city but Oxfordshire would be blessed if the entire population was people like me  Community minded, hardworking, financially self sufficient, quiet, sounds great! |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 8, 2024 10:15:42 GMT
Yeah, so where did I say "whole lives" under ant of those conditions? I think you need to read what I wrote, not what you hoped I wrote. I did not say you said the words “whole lives” but you argued people are not entitled to their own homes and instead should live with family. I am pointing out the flaws in your argument that people should “live with family” instead of feeling entitled to their own home. At what age do you think it is reasonable for people to expect to live in their own home rather than “live with family”? At what age can people prioritise “getting on their bike to find work” over “living with family”? |
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moggyonspeed
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Post by moggyonspeed on Jul 8, 2024 10:55:12 GMT
There you go, Mogg. Meet the sort of person you'll have as a neighbour. I would never live outside a major city but Oxfordshire would be blessed if the entire population was people like me Community minded, hardworking, financially self sufficient, quiet, sounds great! What van said - 100%. Population-wise, within 100 yards of where I live there are people and their families from a whole bunch of backgrounds and skill sets: a Spanish recording engineer, a black Professor of Midwifery, a Pakistani couple (both GPs), A Slovak couple (he a nuclear physicist [at Culham] specialising in fusion, she a materials scientist and a renowned expert on hi-tech coatings), a Hindu couple (she a teacher, he an electrical engineer [who also works at Culham]) - neighbours all and lovely people to boot. I'm confident that mids's Cambridgeshire neighbours have pretty much the same make-up too. More please. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 8, 2024 11:02:39 GMT
I have only passed through Oxford on my way from a wedding. Maybe I should visit properly.
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mids
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Post by mids on Jul 8, 2024 11:11:57 GMT
It's like a poor person who identifies as a man's Cambridge.
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mids
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Post by mids on Jul 8, 2024 11:15:25 GMT
I would never live outside a major city but Oxfordshire would be blessed if the entire population was people like me Community minded, hardworking, financially self sufficient, quiet, sounds great! What van said - 100%. Population-wise, within 100 yards of where I live there are people and their families from a whole bunch of backgrounds and skill sets: a Spanish recording engineer, a black Professor of Midwifery, a Pakistani couple (both GPs), A Slovak couple (he a nuclear physicist [at Culham] specialising in fusion, she a materials scientist and a renowned expert on hi-tech coatings), a Hindu couple (she a teacher, he an electrical engineer [who also works at Culham]) - neighbours all and lovely people to boot. I'm confident that mids's Cambridgeshire neighbours have pretty much the same make-up too. More please. Could you be more virtue-signalling middle class? Wonderfully diverse, simply marvelous vibrancy. Most vibrancy around me is Chinese. They seem okay, maybe struggle a bit with some subtleties of manners but aren't very noticeable on the whole. |
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moggyonspeed
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Post by moggyonspeed on Jul 8, 2024 11:46:33 GMT
What van said - 100%. Population-wise, within 100 yards of where I live there are people and their families from a whole bunch of backgrounds and skill sets: a Spanish recording engineer, a black Professor of Midwifery, a Pakistani couple (both GPs), A Slovak couple (he a nuclear physicist [at Culham] specialising in fusion, she a materials scientist and a renowned expert on hi-tech coatings), a Hindu couple (she a teacher, he an electrical engineer [who also works at Culham]) - neighbours all and lovely people to boot. I'm confident that mids's Cambridgeshire neighbours have pretty much the same make-up too. More please. Could you be more virtue-signalling middle class? Wonderfully diverse, simply marvelous vibrancy. Most vibrancy around me is Chinese. They seem okay, maybe struggle a bit with some subtleties of manners but aren't very noticeable on the whole. ... and there we have it, right there. I see all my neighbours, their work ethic and their backgrounds as a good thing, but mids sees "virtue signalling" which, as if we needed reminding, is a fabrication of journalist James Bartholomew writing in The Spectator in 2015. That's right - the same Spectator that recommended appeasement with the Nazis back in '39 and that still, to this day, acts as a springboard to Tory high office for those contributing. Also, James Bartholomew, poster child of the right who has written for The Mail and The Telegraph as well as The Spectator and has won awards from the IEA (surprisingly, on the right) and The Atlas Foundation (also surprisingly on the right). That said, even the Brexit Party viewed Bartholomew as a liability, placing him so far down the electoral list as to not be electable in 2019. |
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mids
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Post by mids on Jul 8, 2024 11:59:31 GMT
Virtue signalling is a trait as old as humanity. It used to be used to criticise the piously religious and now it's something done almost entirely by the left to show off their "moral character" without having to do very much at all.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 8, 2024 12:21:34 GMT
What van said - 100%. Population-wise, within 100 yards of where I live there are people and their families from a whole bunch of backgrounds and skill sets: a Spanish recording engineer, a black Professor of Midwifery, a Pakistani couple (both GPs), A Slovak couple (he a nuclear physicist [at Culham] specialising in fusion, she a materials scientist and a renowned expert on hi-tech coatings), a Hindu couple (she a teacher, he an electrical engineer [who also works at Culham]) - neighbours all and lovely people to boot. I'm confident that mids's Cambridgeshire neighbours have pretty much the same make-up too. More please. Could you be more virtue-signalling middle class? Wonderfully diverse, simply marvelous vibrancy. Most vibrancy around me is Chinese. They seem okay, maybe struggle a bit with some subtleties of manners but aren't very noticeable on the whole. Where is the virtue signalling in what he said? |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 8, 2024 12:23:15 GMT
Virtue signalling is a trait as old as humanity. It used to be used to criticise the piously religious and now it's something done almost entirely by the left to show off their "moral character" without having to do very much at all. How on earth was Moggy “showing off his moral character” by describing where he lives? |
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moggyonspeed
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Post by moggyonspeed on Jul 8, 2024 12:29:22 GMT
I'd offer up that modern virtue signalling is simply "Not subscribing to a heartless world view, as typically followed by the hard right".
The opposite of "virtue signalling" (one could argue) is "vice denial", something perfected by Johnson's, Truss's and Sunak's Tories - which perhaps is why the British people gave them such a damned-good kicking last Thursday.
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Post by flatandy on Jul 8, 2024 13:47:46 GMT
Or expecting people never to leave their home towns in search of work. I do wonder what Norman Tebbit's bicycle would have made of this view I always felt the same way about this. If success is defined by growth, and growth is always dependent on increasing the population, at some point the ponzi scheme has to end. Most of Europe and lots of East Asia now have birthrates below replacement. Currently we are transitioning using immigration, which is a perfectly OK solution (and there are other very good arguments for immigration). But at some point we are going to have to manage a change away from the traditional capitalist growth mentality that depends on increases in production that comes from increases in population. |
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Post by perrykneeham on Jul 8, 2024 16:24:00 GMT
Yeah, so where did I say "whole lives" under ant of those conditions? I think you need to read what I wrote, not what you hoped I wrote. I did not say you said the words “whole lives” but you argued people are not entitled to their own homes and instead should live with family. I am pointing out the flaws in your argument that people should “live with family” instead of feeling entitled to their own home. At what age do you think it is reasonable for people to expect to live in their own home rather than “live with family”? At what age can people prioritise “getting on their bike to find work” over “living with family”? Again, I said no such thing. |
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 8, 2024 18:23:21 GMT
“But at some point we are going to have to manage a change away from the traditional capitalist growth mentality that depends on increases in production that comes from increases in population.”
It doesn’t seem like anybody even wants to consider that solution.
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Post by Repat Van on Jul 8, 2024 18:24:03 GMT
I did not say you said the words “whole lives” but you argued people are not entitled to their own homes and instead should live with family. I am pointing out the flaws in your argument that people should “live with family” instead of feeling entitled to their own home. At what age do you think it is reasonable for people to expect to live in their own home rather than “live with family”? At what age can people prioritise “getting on their bike to find work” over “living with family”? Again, I said no such thing. “Also, who decided that everyone was entitled to their own house or flat? Live with your families and/or don't start your own until you can look after them.” |
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