bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Dec 14, 2016 18:38:09 GMT
It isn't. This is not a trial. It's an opportunity for the person who is being complained against to give an account of the incident. If the complaint seems doubtful or unprovable from what the other person has to say, the investigation will be closed -- or should be. But the refusal by the UK and Sweden to respect Assange's position as a political refugee is causing endless trouble in bringing the procedure to a conclusion.
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lala
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Post by lala on Dec 14, 2016 20:03:24 GMT
At that point they were anticipating he would return to Sweden, willingly or otherwise. Undertakings he made when told there would be no criminal charges in respect of SW and only "minor" rape stuff in respect of AA and before a warrant was issued for his arrest and extradition. No, I'm talking about the extradition process (hence, "Willingly or unwillingly"), when the full Monty of charges were on the table. Which is the time period we were discussing - you mentioned him being interviewed while under house arrest in Britain, remember? That occurred after the EAW for the full Monty was issued. |
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lala
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Post by lala on Dec 14, 2016 20:16:36 GMT
It isn't. This is not a trial. It's an opportunity for the person who is being complained against to give an account of the incident. If the complaint seems doubtful or unprovable from what the other person has to say, the investigation will be closed -- or should be. But the refusal by the UK and Sweden to respect Assange's position as a political refugee is causing endless trouble in bringing the procedure to a conclusion. You must admit, the defence statement is going to present things as favourably for the defendant as possible. He is not recognised as a political refugee because eh does not meet the criterion: "A person who owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it." He is an Australian citizen and should have sought help from Australia in the first instance, not some shoddy bunch of dagoes [sic]. |
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Post by Repat Van on Dec 14, 2016 21:00:53 GMT
No-one credible has contended that she was. She was the one who had to endure violent, unpleasant sex, and a torn / ripped condom. One of two women involved told Aftonbladet in an interview published today that she had never intended Assange to be charged with rape. She was quoted as saying: “It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him.” www.anorak.co.uk/256861/news/julian-assange-loses-his-cool-to-rape-victim-anna-ardin-wilikleaks-is-scooped.html/"Unpleasant" You try a Bi sexual misandrous co founder of a lesbian club & see what critique you get & that condom had no DNA whatsoever, How does that happen? This is just... "wow"... |
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Post by Repat Van on Dec 14, 2016 21:03:03 GMT
I think I've said that to OH about 17 times now but he doesn't seem quite to get it. It was explained to her and she still did not want him charged. It's still her word against his and they should carry equal weight but in reality if she is not confident enough in her testimony to have that testimony used in a prosecution of him then they are clearly not of equal weight. She has separately described herself as "asleep", "half asleep" and "awake" in social media that she tried to destroy. Yeah you still aren't understanding. You seem to think the definition of rape means "somebody accused you of rape". If they feel the description of the events meet the criteria of rape they can prosecute. Not sure why that's hard for you to understand. |
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Dec 14, 2016 21:43:13 GMT
Did I mention Christian? She's a Christian too. |
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Dec 14, 2016 21:44:58 GMT
It was explained to her and she still did not want him charged. It's still her word against his and they should carry equal weight but in reality if she is not confident enough in her testimony to have that testimony used in a prosecution of him then they are clearly not of equal weight. She has separately described herself as "asleep", "half asleep" and "awake" in social media that she tried to destroy. Yeah you still aren't understanding. You seem to think the definition of rape means "somebody accused you of rape". If they feel the description of the events meet the criteria of rape they can prosecute. Not sure why that's hard for you to understand. Yeah, they didn't want to do that. |
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lala
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Post by lala on Dec 14, 2016 21:50:46 GMT
No-one credible has contended that she was. She was the one who had to endure violent, unpleasant sex, and a torn / ripped condom. One of two women involved told Aftonbladet in an interview published today that she had never intended Assange to be charged with rape. She was quoted as saying: “It is quite wrong that we were afraid of him. He is not violent and I do not feel threatened by him.” www.anorak.co.uk/256861/news/julian-assange-loses-his-cool-to-rape-victim-anna-ardin-wilikleaks-is-scooped.html/"Unpleasant" You try a Bi sexual misandrous co founder of a lesbian club & see what critique you get & that condom had no DNA whatsoever, How does that happen? The person quoted is probably SW; the article does not specify who it is. Assange was never charged with rape in regard to AA. You're getting yourself all confused, aren't you? AA, on the other hand, did comment on the sex as being unpleasant and violent: That evening, Miss A held a party at her flat. One of her friends, "Monica", later told police that during the party Miss A had told her about the ripped condom and unprotected sex. Another friend told police that during the evening Miss A told her she had had "the worst sex ever" with Assange: "Not only had it been the world's worst screw, it had also been violent."
www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden |
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Dec 14, 2016 22:13:03 GMT
The person quoted is probably SW; the article does not specify who it is. Assange was never charged with rape in regard to AA. You're getting yourself all confused, aren't you? AA, on the other hand, did comment on the sex as being unpleasant and violent: That evening, Miss A held a party at her flat. One of her friends, "Monica", later told police that during the party Miss A had told her about the ripped condom and unprotected sex. Another friend told police that during the evening Miss A told her she had had "the worst sex ever" with Assange: "Not only had it been the world's worst screw, it had also been violent."
www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden The quote is SW! No confusion. An inconsistency in the collusion but no confusion. AA is the one who tweeted, weeks after the allegations, "I was not raped". |
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Dec 14, 2016 22:22:22 GMT
He isn't actually 'the defendant'. He's not in court. He was interviewed as part of an investigation into a complaint of Swedish rape. He gave an account of the incident and the circumstances of his stay in Sweden. There's no reason to suppose it was tweaked or slanted to misrepresent the facts. It's up to the prosecutor to weigh the information and decide whether to proceed or to conclude the investigation without further action.
He has been recognized as a political refugee by Ecuador and has a legal right to reside in Ecuador.
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Post by Repat Van on Dec 14, 2016 22:28:56 GMT
Yeah you still aren't understanding. You seem to think the definition of rape means "somebody accused you of rape". If they feel the description of the events meet the criteria of rape they can prosecute. Not sure why that's hard for you to understand. Yeah, they didn't want to do that. Whether they wanted to prosecute or not is irrelevant (at least at the questioning stage.) |
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Dec 14, 2016 22:46:17 GMT
Oh well. let's just ignore the accusers all together then. Where does that leave us? Neither women claim rape and one was clear she did not want him charged at all. People not in the respective rooms will know better than those who were. It's insane.
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Post by Repat Van on Dec 15, 2016 2:34:59 GMT
Oh well. let's just ignore the accusers all together then. Where does that leave us? Neither women claim rape and one was clear she did not want him charged at all. People not in the respective rooms will know better than those who were. It's insane. So you're saying people should only investigate what they believe to be a crime if the accuser wants that? Do you apply that to all crimes or just this one? If a child shares with their teacher that her dad makes her have sex with her then no investigation of the crime unless she wants it? I know you grave a hard on for Assange but that's not how it works. |
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lala
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Post by lala on Dec 15, 2016 2:35:50 GMT
The quote is SW! No confusion. An inconsistency in the collusion but no confusion. AA is the one who tweeted, weeks after the allegations, "I was not raped". So, um, if we are discussing AA, why are you quoting SW's comment? Why are you banging about the "I was not raped" txt? As I've said already, no sensible person with knowledge of the case contends AA was. You seem to be chasing your tail in circles. |
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Post by Repat Van on Dec 15, 2016 2:40:40 GMT
And for the love of God you keep fixating on whether the women called it rape. How many times does it need to be repeated that a crime can have been committed even if the victims don't see it as a crime.
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lala
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Post by lala on Dec 15, 2016 2:42:49 GMT
Oh well. let's just ignore the accusers all together then. Where does that leave us? Neither women claim rape and one was clear she did not want him charged at all. People not in the respective rooms will know better than those who were. It's insane. It is the reality of rape investigations. Victims are often reluctant to make a complaint, or testify (because, as demonstrated here, people will attempt to denigrate them and humiliate them by bringing up their sexual behaviour). Rape often involves abuse by a previously trusted intimate partner. The victim in these circumstances will often attempt to retract statements, possibly due to fear or coercion. So there is nothing insane about the way the prosecutors have behaved in this case. Whether they decide to proceed to trial is another matter, but procedure has to be followed; Assange is preventing any resolution. Stupidly, he's effectively made the situation impossible because even if the Swedes decide not to prosecute, he is now also wanted in Britain for bail jumping, wasting all our time and being a slimy little weasel. At least one of these is an actual legal offence. |
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bertruss2
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Post by bertruss2 on Dec 15, 2016 3:25:00 GMT
It has not been established that any crime was committed.
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lala
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Post by lala on Dec 15, 2016 8:05:42 GMT
Why would that be? Because the slimy little nanophallus is cowering in the broom cupboard of some South American despot, in the name of freedom?
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Dec 15, 2016 11:29:39 GMT
Oh well. let's just ignore the accusers all together then. Where does that leave us? Neither women claim rape and one was clear she did not want him charged at all. People not in the respective rooms will know better than those who were. It's insane. So you're saying people should only investigate what they believe to be a crime if the accuser wants that? Do you apply that to all crimes or just this one? If a child shares with their teacher that her dad makes her have sex with her then no investigation of the crime unless she wants it? I know you grave a hard on for Assange but that's not how it works. Nowhere did I say what you suggest but it is insane that adults in the room can say they were not raped and adults who were not can say they were. |
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auldhippy
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Post by auldhippy on Dec 15, 2016 11:32:14 GMT
The quote is SW! No confusion. An inconsistency in the collusion but no confusion. AA is the one who tweeted, weeks after the allegations, "I was not raped". So, um, if we are discussing AA, why are you quoting SW's comment? Why are you banging about the "I was not raped" txt? As I've said already, no sensible person with knowledge of the case contends AA was. You seem to be chasing your tail in circles. I quoted her because it contradicts that he was violent. |
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